{"id":15281,"date":"2021-03-03T15:12:32","date_gmt":"2021-03-03T09:42:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/?p=15281"},"modified":"2021-03-03T16:12:03","modified_gmt":"2021-03-03T10:42:03","slug":"ppcchat-when-a-big-brand-says-ppc-is-worthless","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/ppcchat-when-a-big-brand-says-ppc-is-worthless\/","title":{"rendered":"PPCChat | When A Big Brand Says PPC Is Worthless | 2nd March 2021"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

In this week’s session which was hosted by Julie F Bacchini<\/a> , PPCers expressed their opinion on brand vs. non-brand paid search marketing, what are their responses to Airbnb’s CEO Brian Chesky’s quote, how are experts preparing themselves to respond to their clients and more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

Q1: What is your response to the CEO\u2019s quote?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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They are running Google ads, so I am not sure how much he really knows about what they are or are not doing. Larger concern is how statements like this make clients think they can stop significant portions of their marketing without impact. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So you’re saying it’s good advice for a publicly traded, multi-billion dollar company when your name defines the category and you’ve spent tens of millions on marketing already? Noted. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

PPC isn’t magic, it’s marketing. It’s a way of getting a marketing message in front of a particular group of people. If those people are the wrong people, it’s not going to produce good results. @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I hadn’t read that exact quote but seems reasonable to me. Marketing isn’t one-size-fits-all, and if your brand is a household name, there are different considerations than if you’re not as well known. I’m curious what the performance will be long-term. @FindingAmanda<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s short-sighted at best, stupid at worst — though I take issue with the underlying sentiment more than the performance marketing. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

To be fair, the only folks that have brought this up so far are PPC folks, specifically search. I haven’t heard from any clients that want to walk down the same path with their own budgets. @AndrewCMiller<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sounds like a largely sound marketing strategy, subject to review of course. Side note that’s irrelevant to the core discussion but should still be said – AirBnB is an evil company and (like STRs in general) bad for cities. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Maybe (big Maybe) that will work for Airbnb but not many brands have the name recognition they have & they certainly used Google Ads to get to this point. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

(part 2): Just because a company is big or has a huge ppc budget doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing. Case in point: saasmultipliermethod.com\/data-analysis\/\u2026<\/a> @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

(part 3): Performance marketing done badly often just cannibalises your existing sales. @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

One thing that I wish companies understood or internalized better is that brand marketing is a multiplier that gets you out of the algorithmic rat race. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

“Never intend”=until something changes. We had MANY clients who’s organic outperformed PPC last year (all which had strong PPC performance before). We’ve pulled back some & pivoted others to different methods, but “never say never” @ynotweb<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

He is responsible to make the best decisions for his company, AirBnB, and that should have little to no impact on what other businesses should do in their own unique circumstances. @PPCKirk<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Congrats to them, really congrats. Every company is different, and a lot of smaller companies are fighting to get the word out about their businesses. @PPCKenChang<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I would suggest a test before a complete shut down of paid search. Be prepared with traffic estimates, attribution %, and have an understanding on what your brand serp looks like, does this leave you open to competitors? @ValenciaSEM<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The number of brands that could skip Google and not see a decline over time approaches 0. Even eBay’s study a few years ago only pertained to a specific slice of their budget. These brands say one thing, and always just increase their G budget over time @bgtheory<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Simple, my brand is not AirBnB. We are not the leader in the niche vertical. Therefore that concept doesn’t work for us.\/ @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q2: Are you preparing any kind of response to either proactively send or have at the ready for clients who may bring this up – specifically \u201cwe can reduce spend significantly and not hurt our results\u201d?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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My response: “You should turn on your Brand campaign!” @yaelconsulting<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

If a client is convinced of this, they may genuinely be right. “Let’s test it and see” validates that clients typically know their industry better than agencies, without saying “yes, all the dollars you’ve spent with us are worthless.” @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not going on the defensive\/warpath about the value of PPC but it does warrant having a discussion with clients if it’s brought up. It’s easy to regression test PPC influence if you have multiple markets or segments that can be analyzed individually. @AndrewCMiller<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

No. If a client is asking this, then they don’t know the value they’re getting from PPC. It’s our job to make sure they have that information – and that it’s correct. (Or, at the very least, well modelled.) @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

No. We made adjustments long ago. We are a SEM and SEO agency though, so we get to pivot where it makes sense at the time. Our goal is never to rely on paid for the majority of traffic. @ynotweb<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don\u2019t think this warrants a pro-active response (like I think iOS14 does), but we\u2019re ready if people have concerns. Most of our clients already filter that sort of thing out as overly-simplified and not applicable to them, thankfully. @PPCKirk<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’m not particularly worried about my clients. We are working on limited budgets and every dollar has to justify itself already. We do a lot of measurement and analysis to ensure that. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not planning on proactively bringing this up, but updating my standard response to these types of things (there have been several big companies over the years who say things like this & some clients bring it up). @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nothing proactive. Have had to have this conversation many times over the years in different ways & I don’t see this quote changing much for that at least for my clients. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nope. If a client asks about it, I’m happy (and prepared) to discuss my thoughts and why the approach advanced by AirBnB might not be the right way to go. But I don’t want to extend more legitimacy to confirmation-bias fueled idiocy than necessary. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

No. not sure if this was covered in Q1 but I think this was an over generalization by a nontechnical person. All of my points of contact would understand that Airbnb has more brand equity, search volume and resistance to competitors than them. @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We’ll give our POV to the clients that ask, but the reality is, you are not VRBO, Priceline, eBay, Geico, etc. So the same rules don’t really apply @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

1: Also, paid search is a *demand capture* tactic – meaning that it’s converting existing demand (created elsewhere) into customers. Two other issues with his statement: (1) the counterfactual and (2) the long-term implications of not understanding (1). @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

No. Few brands are associates the brand name with product (Band-aid \/”Google it”) – like airbnb. They invested to have their brand known as the product + to have their site ranked among top in the world. But even airbnb loses their lunch to @Expedia<\/a> @yaelconsulting<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q3: This seems like a great opportunity to talk about brand vs. non-brand paid search marketing. What are your thoughts on brand vs. non-brand in PPC?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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It’s hard to lose money on brand ppc. @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ah the age old question. It is a matter of defense\/retention, vs awareness. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Thoughts….in what way? I think both are necessary, though they should be evaluated differently. Also, not all brand PPC is the same (not what you asked, but I always feel compelled to mention it) @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am a big proponent of brand advertising in search. Especially with mobile traffic! I am also a big proponent of brand awareness advertising, which most businesses don’t do enough of, in my opinion. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Always measure & report on brand & NB outcomes separately but look to your preferred attribution model to see the full story of how they influence each other. Cant’ believe we’re still preaching this in 2021! @AndrewCMiller<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’ve always viewed brand PPC as an insurance policy. Ensures people see a well-written ad and get right to the best page (whether that is the home page or other). Protects from competitors. Usually has really high return. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Brand campaigns keep your messaging and products top of mind, and non-brand campaigns are great for reaching on to new customers discovering your product or service for the first time. @PPCKenChang<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Brand paid search is about owning the SERP and\/or ensuring queries are answered correctly. Brand display, whether GDN or Social, is about reinforcing other marketing channels and creative. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think you should probably do both in most instances. But if your agency isn’t breaking the two apart from a reporting standpoint fire them. @CJSlattery<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Seeing as I used to manage a brand campaign for a Fortune 100 company that was plagued with brand infringement I\u2019m extremely passionate about bidding on your own brand or others will. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Always recommend running brand. always have to have the “why am I paying for people that will find me anyway” convo. B\/c its the cheapest traffic & if you don’t bid your competitors will. & have done tests measuring organic with turning brand off – Traffic falls. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The Brand vs Non-Brand discussion in PPC *has* to be taken on a case by case basis. Majority of Ecommerce and DTC brands have far more to gain by spending pennies on their own branded terms, than they do to lose those important Search\/Shopping slots to competitors. @PPCKirk<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Depends on the brand, their organic position, and their competitors use of our brand. We are always watching for unnecessary cannibalization, but when your brand includes any keywords that may be used by competitors, its often good to make a showing by brand. @ynotweb<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Another reason I\u2019m a strong advocate for brand keywords is so you can have conversion experience vs sending people ready to convert to a homepage in the organic listing that aims satisfy customer logins, Pay bills etc – industry speaking. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

All search captures demand. Brand is typically the highest demand. That being said (IlI sound like a broken record) the likelihood of someone going with a competitor is the primary consideration on spend vs don\u2019t spend. For Clear Category leaders it\u2019s a toss up @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q4: Most brands don\u2019t have the brand recognition of an Airbnb (though some act as if they do!). What is your best advice or technique to help increase brand awareness and recognition via paid search or social?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Use paid social (and YouTube, and other relevant impression-based media) to boost brand awareness, then capture the traffic from search by bidding on brand and brand-adjacent terms. @beyondthepaid<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

As others have said already, utilize social and GDN\/YouTube to generate demand at lower auction costs. Then use Search to capture the demand especially with Mid-Funnel or Bottom-Funnel terms. Simple in theory, but works. @PPCKirk<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Segmentation and frequency! Most brands can’t or don’t need to become a verb like Airbnb or Google (or Xerox!) but can punch above their weight class by focusing budgets towards their highest value prospects and appearing consistently. @AndrewCMiller<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Echoing other smart people – use paid social. If you can do YouTube, even better! I know it’s not our area of expertise, but email is still a great marketing tool. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

For brand awareness efforts, I generally encourage clients to go with lower cost per eyeball options, ie YouTube ads over nonbrand text. @FindingAmanda<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Capturing and reinforcing our raving fans and using them as leverage to build brand awareness through social @ynotweb<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Robust tracking – Eventually someone is going to ask why you are spending money on campaigns with little to no ROAS (conversions) you have to show why its important. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’ve seen some great TOF awareness campaigns in YouTube, Pinterest, TikTok lately w\/ even spend in other paid channels. When we increase in those areas, our sales go up, but we can’t track it directly to a particular ad. Our post purchase survey also verifies that. @RyBen3<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q5: Are there brands with lots of name recognition that you think do a great job with PPC as well?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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I don’t know if you’d consider it PPC but both BetterHelp and SquareSpace do a great job with their podcast & YouTube sponsorship ads. Part of that is the content talent does a lot of heavy lifting for those ads. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There are lots of them, but to prevent giving competition positive feedback, I will just keep my mouth shut. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Amazon? @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q6: If you could be totally unfiltered what would you say to a client who said \u201cWell, Airbnb cut their marketing by 95% and are doing just fine, why can\u2019t we\u201d?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Bcoz ur not Airbnb. @kondareddy20449<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

When you are a publicly-traded company who’s gone through rounds of funding, created your brand as a noun or verb people use (ie. Go Google it, Get an Airbnb, Tweet me) then you can have that argument. For now, you still need advertising. @RyBen3<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

“You’re not Airbnb.” @beyondthepaid<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, they are running Google ads right now, so I’m not sure how long that 95% cut was in place? Also, you are not Airbnb. It’s good to have a goal though! @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sorry, I have to poker face, so they’d see my puppy headlock, then the smirk, and even a snicker. Because if someone wants to cut ALL their marketing (including SEO) because someone else did, would I even keep them as a client? “Go ahead, it’s your perogative. @ynotweb<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

” hahahahahah are you serious? @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

“You’re probably not Airbnb” “Based on our best estimates, your Paid Search is driving _____ incremental (dollars|leads) over the past ____ months” “We’re happy to test it! The best way to test a channel is an on\/off test. Let’s review KPIs on ____ date.” @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Just because you *can* hold your breath for a while without seeing any downside, doesn’t mean you *should*. Even free divers have to come up for air occasionally. We’re happy to test it though, but here are the side effects to watch out for: nausea, blurry vision.. @AndrewCMiller<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is the more patient response LOL @ynotweb<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

“Are you airbnb?” @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

“Let’s turn off your ads for 2 weeks and we’ll meet back here 15 days from now.” @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well Mr.\/Ms.\/Mrs. X, let me tell you about the age old 1+1=3 search incrementality theory…(shameless plug, I will have an article out on it in SEJ on 3\/18) @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I would ask them to define \u201cjust fine\u201d because airbnb isn\u2019t fine and wasn\u2019t fine before cutting marketing…a 4.6b deficit rn isn\u2019t \u201cfine\u201d @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q7: If there is a myth about PPC that you wish would finally go away for good, what is it and why?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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That it always works, in every situation, against any audience, for any product. @AndrewCMiller<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

To keep the theme – That you automatically get all the brand traffic organically if you turn your brand campaign off. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Unequivocally– more budget does not mean more sales or even more traffic. I think Julie said earlier, paying does not increase demand! @ynotweb<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s incredibly easy to setup and drives results quickly. @davisbaker<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The engines have our needs in mind first @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I like myths about PPC – particularly when my clients’ competitors believe them. Long may they persist. @stevegibsonppc<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

PPC Myths I’d like to see permanently busted: You can set it up in 5 minutes and be successful. Google advice is good cause they are Google. Budgets don’t matter. Anyone can DIY PPC. Platforms’ interests are 100% aligned with advertiser interests. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That it’s set up to be DIY and anyone can run it on their own successfully. AND that the “experts” who call you from Google Ads to help fix your account are legit.  @yaelconsulting<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Locally there is a myth that PPC a male-dominated field, because it\u2019s technical. I see this less and less nationally but the myth exists. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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PPCChat Participants<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n