{"id":21451,"date":"2023-02-22T11:15:30","date_gmt":"2023-02-22T05:45:30","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/?p=21451"},"modified":"2023-02-22T11:15:31","modified_gmt":"2023-02-22T05:45:31","slug":"ppcchat-coping-with-diminishing-data","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/ppcchat-coping-with-diminishing-data\/","title":{"rendered":"PPCChat | Coping with Diminishing Data | 21st February 2023"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Greetings Readers! Data is all PPCers look for and get worried for. During this week’s PPCChat session, host Julie F Bacchini<\/a> discussed the change in the quality of PPC data, any data points that experts are worried about going fully away and more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

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Q1: What are the main types of data you regularly work with in PPC? From what sources?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Back-end revenue\/lead data & GA for the most part. Some data from the Bing, Google, FB tags but prefer to grab this all from GA so I am comparing the same thing. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Since I am doing primarily search advertising lately, I look a lot at query reports. Also, analytics to try to glean information about paths searchers take after arriving on the site. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

A whole bunch of data depending what our client needs are. Platform data, revenue data., etc. @TheMarketingAnu<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’ve been spending a lot of time going through Search Term reports recently… Also making sure I’m getting as much customer\/lead data as possible from clients. @marketingsoph<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Depends. All the decisions in performance are taken based on data. So, everything numbers and stats. Sources: @googleanalytics is huge. Third-party data sources. Competitors spying tools, platforms analytics. I dissect the funnel & measure CR% at all the steps. @1tagupta<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I mostly look at Google Ads data with search query reports, main kpi’s, also at Google Analytics, and revenue data from both Shopify and Triple Whale. @digitalceo5<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hey gang!! Predominantly in platform data but increasingly encountering much more first-party data and business data in my current role which is a WHOLE new kettle of fish. @PPC_Fraser<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The most common data\/sources we look at are: \u2013 Conversions\/sales\/revenue (which varies between GA4, GAds tag & CRM imports as the source) \u2013\u00a0Performance data from various platforms (like clicks, impr, etc. from Google Ads) \u2013\u00a0Search Terms \/ Placements Reports. @adclarke10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Depends on the brand I am working with. For everyone, I use the PPC platform data. Some clients we use data warehouse data to show various data points like new to file, lifetime value and more. Some we use other platforms like sales force for B2B. @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I mainly use the GAds platform data (SQRs a lot), GA data and with PMax I look a lot in the data from Mike Rhodes script. @SofiaAkritidou1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Main sources of data is Google Analytics, Shopify, Klaviyo and CRM data. Plus if site data is pulled into any platform not mentioned above. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It is kind of a spectrum of things: SQRs, front-end metrics, auction insights, to back-end data like conversions and audience demos. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q2: Do you find you have less PPC data to work with now than you had previously? What types of data, specifically, are diminished or less available?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Yes and no. The hiding of data from the big platforms has made clients more receptive to putting in the work to get us back-end data. So less in-platform data more data from clients. Really wish I could still see queries and placements to make sure $ isn’t wasted. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, there is less data available now than previously. The most obvious answer is search queries. They have been steadily declining in visibility for a while now. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The Search Term Report visibility issue has been the biggest disappointment for me. Especially when working with smaller budgets, where you’re trying to make every penny count. @marketingsoph<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

When we went from standard shopping to smart, we lost the ability to see keyword data. Now with Performance Max, they introduced new pieces to shopping & the lack of visibility as to which creative assets, ad copy, etc are connected to conversions are missed most. @digitalceo5<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I do miss all the query data we used to have, but I work with a lot of companies with great data we can still pull from to make decisions\/changes. If you do catalogue, podcast, television, and other forms of ads, your data needs to be on point. @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ad performance data. With responsive search ads (RSA) you just can’t tell which parts are working or resonating like you used to be able to when testing text ads against each other. I miss those insights a lot. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, that’s correct. I’ll share an ex. One of the ecom clients, their best-performing ones are PMax, Search, and Brand. The owner wants to see more data for each decision I’m taking in the platform and his best one is PMax. I’m not sure how to get the data for it. @1tagupta<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I have a longer-term concern about data going behind a paywall. Take the case of Twitter Ads data, which will no longer be free via API. These forces mktrs to ask ‘is it worth the $ for data about my performance?’ Don’t like where this is heading. @heyglenns<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Definitely, yes. For starters, seeing less queries in Search Terms Reports on Google Ads. On LinkedIn, Demographics reports rarely include conversion data for specific segments. Facebook conversion data feels unreliable after iOS14.5. @adclarke10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Even in platforms like Looker Studio (formerly Google Data Studio), we’re finding that certain combinations of variables will result in errors or aren’t compatible anymore. Ex: applying a specific filter to tables with conversion data, GA4 quota limits, etc. @adclarke10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not having more data for RSA assets (like specific headlines\/descriptions) is extra frustrating as well. @adclarke10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Definitely less data platform wise but interestingly it’s been an easier conversation to have about the importance of first-party data with clients so on that front it’s been much improved. @PPC_Fraser<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

At least in ecom, DTC and SaaS, we have more data than we ever have in the platforms I mentioned in question 1. We can see less data in ad platforms due to black box. Pairing platforms and outside data together is a huge skill that will only become more in demand. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It feels like it does. But more specifically, I am getting less of the additional data I started to get, which is making it feel like less. Exceptions being GA4 and PMax where are just flat-out less data. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q3: Has the quality and\/or reliability of your PPC data changed? Where or in what way has it changed the most?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Yes, by not showing the data, we all know we are getting shown for things we should not be. This is leading to increased bad spend for advertisers. @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, we noticed the profitability of campaigns slowly lose efficiency, but once we introduced end-to-end tracking we’ve seen stronger returns. I think it’s a matter of retraining the machine learning to focus on the signals of users who turn into C\/W deals. @spacetime_0914<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I have only recently found out that the audience data (observations) you see in the GAds platform is not accurate and you shouldn\u2019t base your decisions on that data and rather use GA data that attributes more accurate metrics to each audience type. \u00a0@SofiaAkritidou1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I have been lucky to have the back-end and front-end data management increasing in quality, agnostic of any changes to the platform. I haven’t felt a lead-quality pain as much. @ECEitel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Apple’s iOS 14.5 come out almost 2 years ago. Google’s futureless cookie play. More black boxing has meant less data in ad platforms. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think the deterioration of the reliability of granular data, has probably negatively impacted the quality of the data. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q4: Are there any data points that you can no longer access or use because they have gone away? What type of data falls into this category for you? How are you handling the data loss?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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One of the newer data points removed is the ability to target similar audiences on #GoogleAds<\/a> I also miss the ability to see average position by keyword. \u00a0@digitalceo5<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I would love to get insights from those doing Omnichannel B2B for long sales cycles and Pmax only ecom. Both become a huge pain for me while tracking data. @1tagupta<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nothing gone away completely yet – minus the in-platform stuff, but I think it’s just a matter of time. Obviously, GA4 will be a big one but if you are using cookies for tracking I think that will be on the chopping block soon. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We can access data but we don’t have access to 100% of it like before. Anything semi-customer-related is becoming harder to access. SQR data is a good one in Google Ads. \u00a0@duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Data points being gone is hitting targeting now. But I expect that we will continue to see\/have access to less and less within the ad platforms. It will be positioned as either for “privacy” or “automation for your success.” @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not really any major ones yet, but some of the reports we use in Google Analytics UA will need to be recreated (if possible) in GA4. The Looker Studio GA4 quotas are also frustrating for reporting purposes, but we can work around that by reviewing the platform itself. @adclarke10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think targeting is the biggest hit, and some data is less clear. Ultimately, privacy is necessary (inconvenient or not) and is shifting the focus of targeting back to how we message, which is more important every day. Quality creative and messaging is huge. @ECEitel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Varies by ad unit. The one that really went away and I am happy about is the average position. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q5: If you could wave a wand and change something about PPC data today, what would it be and why?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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GA4 – throw it in the trashcan. Start over. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So many things… Visibility of all search query data is my #1. If I’m paying for the click, I deserve to see the query. Period. Let me see how assets (RSA components) perform. I did actually use to learn form ad tests & use outside platforms! @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Radical transparency from online ad platforms. Start with users (tell them how data will be used, allow a real opt-out) all the way through advertisers (performance stats on everything). @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I would love PPC to provide video screen shares of the journey from the search to the ad click to the journey on your website that represents the average of interactions over a given period of time. @digitalceo5<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tbh, nothing I guess. I think eventually it was bound to happen. Tech evolution does and will affect every aspect of human efficiency and revenue gen. I would find more ways to educate myself and my clients. And get more genuine insights from platforms. @1tagupta<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Add headline & description-level data for RSAs. Bring back visibility into search terms reports. In Looker Studio, increase the quota limits for GA4 data & give more details about errors so that we can try to work around them better. @adclarke10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Audience data. SQ data. Ad performance data. Bid auction data. Anonymize it however you like but give me the chance to splice the numbers to gain some learnings. Especially SQR. I used to live for that hot search term gossip. Give me the juice! @ECEitel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Getting SQR data would be really nice. What we wish we could “fix” are cross-channel attribution data… so we never have to talk about it again. People want to solve something that is almost impossible to solve with the current set-up\/tech. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Give me all the granular data. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q6: Are there any data points you\u2019re worried about diminishing or going fully away in the near future? What\u2019s got you concerned about these particular data points?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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UA data. GA4, it may have better tracking but still, I would like to work with both. @1tagupta<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’m worried it will become harder to get CRM\/1st party data into the platforms. I am not entirely confident in the data in platform or GA4. 1st party data is most reliable and if it becomes harder\/impossible to get into the accounts that is worrisome. @selley2134<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don’t like them burying competitive metrics like “% top impression share” as it erodes faith in the auction. But I’m afraid in this instance, the fox is already in the hen house. @heyglenns<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sigh…yes, but I think I am going to dwell less on what I can’t change and more on what I can impact. We need to be more than just data measurement to succeed with longevity. @ECEitel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Google always makes me nervous, & I would hate to see every campaign type end up with the same level of “insights” that a PMax campaign has. For example, getting rid of the Search Terms Report entirely, which would have a drastic impact on performance & optimization. @adclarke10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am concerned we are going to get a lot more “trending” type data instead of actual data in the not-too-distant future. We need to rethink where our value will lie when we can’t create competitive advantages for our clients by making direct changes. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Honestly, there are probably too many to note. @JonKagan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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PPCChat Participants<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n