{"id":23495,"date":"2024-02-22T01:05:46","date_gmt":"2024-02-21T19:35:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/?p=23495"},"modified":"2024-02-22T01:05:48","modified_gmt":"2024-02-21T19:35:48","slug":"ppcchat-reimagining-ppc","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/ppcchat-reimagining-ppc\/","title":{"rendered":"PPCChat | Reimagining PPC | 20th February 2024"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

The topic for this week’s PPCChat session was \u201cReimagining PPC\u201d where host Julie F Bacchini<\/a> sought experts’ views on the most impactful changes in PPC, services offered by PPCers recently and the biggest worries or concerns about working in PPC over the next 10 years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

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Q1: What do you think the most impactful changes have been in the PPC industry over the past 3 years? How have these changes impacted you and how you go about doing PPC?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Making the platform so easy even my kid can do it with aggressive Google reps and recommendations being shoved down our throats and business being the victims of all this and having \u201cPTSD\u201d from providers. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Automation is a huge one.PPC platforms have always built for e-commerce, but with the rapid rise of automation within those systems, it has skewed even further in that direction. Lead generation PPC keeps getting harder. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Broadening of keyword to search term matches. This has changed my focus from thinking about optimising based on what was searched to optimising for offline conversions. @Pete_Bowen<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

All the batched ad products taking over for specific products. PMax for everything, YT Shorts only in Performance campaigns, Meta’s never-ending ‘just let the machine do it’ approach. AI innovation could have made our reporting better, our spend more effective, and our channel attribution more transparent. instead…we have this. @JuliaVyse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I genuinely don’t think you can answer this without mentioning the various types of automation – from smart bidding to increased auto-apply recommendations to automated campaign controls. Those things have fundamentally reshaped how much of the day-to-day work of a PPC practitioner operates. There are obviously things around the fringes that will move more mainstream, like shifts in product search to Amazon, the emergence of retail media as viable PPC channels, shifting roles of channels (i.e. there’s more search happening on YouTube, Instagram, etc.), but fundamentally, I think everything comes back to automation + smart bidding playing an outsized role in PPC lever-pulling. The rest just starts to happen downstream of that. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Also, automation in general. Realising that the future of my career isn\u2019t going to be about pulling levers inside the UI, but rather on optimising for what happens after the click. @Pete_Bowen<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The hard push into “the machine knows best.” Obviously, machines can handle things at a pace and level that humans can’t and there’s good and bad with that. However, PPC is pushing so hard into just trusting the machines that the limitations are ignored. It’s quickly leaving small businesses behind. @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And @HarrisonJHepp<\/a> we don\u2019t fully trust the machines and for good reason – hello \u201cshake the cushions\u201d and its fallout\u2026@NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think the biggest thing comes from platforms’ explicit admission that “stuff ain’t that complicated y’all.” I think a lot of us came up in the big-data era and so we apply this kind of granular thinking. Whereas now, there’s an implicit “stuff’s messy, it’s better to think ‘light touch'” — and I think in most situations that’s right, and has actually always been right. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I personally embrace and look forward to automation. What I don\u2019t like and is the black box around it & relinquishing total control with no visibility. I still want to be the pilot at the controls switching autopilot on. Specific to Google Ads, the decimation of match types and keyword targeting will have a lasting impact on the industry. It is not keyword targeting anymore, it is search term targeting. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

For me, I am focused even more now on being at least part of the conversation for the post-click experience. There is less we can control on the pre-click side of the equation. So the differentiation of the future lies a lot on post-click. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Lots of folks have mentioned it so I’ll just +1 it. They’re trying to take away all the controls from the user and make it feel less like you’re sitting in the cockpit of a rocket ship and more like a simple iPad app anyone can use. The issue with that is we need those controls to optimize and enhance performance. @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I remember so many times where we’ve said the sky’s falling over these kinds of “over” simplifications – I literally wrote an article about how enhanced campaigns is actually better and was told many times that I was a Google shill. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> I agree, the post-click side of things is becoming increasingly important. Something PPCers are going to have to lean into. @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think @ferkungamaboobo<\/a> is spot on here – there’s been a perpetual illusion of granular accuracy in paid media that’s slowly dissipating. That’s objectively a good thing.3PA was always a farce. The idea that human decision-making could be boiled down by a random-ass pixel was always kinda a joke that went profitable before everyone could laugh. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@ferkungamaboobo<\/a> if there’s anything you’re not, it’s a shill! but we are living through a time when all of our professional instincts are being seen as legacy, in favour of ‘just letting Google do it’s thing’ not a great place to be, particularly given the incentives of Google. @JuliaVyse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@ferkungamaboobo<\/a> I’m not sure I agree and would love to learn more about your thinking. Could share some insights into what those situations are. @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The really really obvious answer is the amount of data and ability to actually make changes without using automation keeps getting smaller and smaller. If you want to be in control of the campaign you are spending money on you are almost punished for that and even then you are not given even half of the data that campaign collects. @MichealGumbert<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don’t think it’s quite as binary. But finance went through this same thing ~15 years ago, where many old-school traders were bemoaning the use of automated algorithms, claiming that it was bad for the industry, etc.Fast forward, and those people are all either dead, broke or converts. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Google introduced a fundamental, tectonic shift in the way its ad products function. They are moving from demand capture to demand generation<\/em>. From a slightly pessimistic POV, they recognized that their “TOF” inventory has been under-utilized for too long, they had to find a way to better monetize it (Display, Gmail, YouTube, and more recently, Discover placements). From a rosier POV, they found a way to transform their Everest-sized mountain of search intent data into an “engine” that reaches consumers at many touchpoints, not just the last, expressed form of that (search). My outlook is…leaning in. There is no point is swimming upstream any longer. We advertisers have no choice but to operate fully within the ecosystem now available. PMax is the future, like it or not, and when set up diligently, this campaign type works well enough. @teabeeshell<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AH yeah, I don’t mean “just let Google do its thing” – I mean more… I think about doing wild stuff like bid modifiers for weather in areas on inelastic goods, dynamic zip-code bid targeting, wild automation funnels that led to hyper-segmentation. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@DigitalSamIAm<\/a> I was just thinking on this same thing earlier today. The finance world has moved almost entirely to algorithms trading and you either figured out how to survive in that world or you didn’t. PPC is going to see the same. @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

When 4 accounts was normal 8 tops at agencies to agencies giving PPC strategists 30 to 40 accounts is another big one. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Oh, I had about 10 on Google with maybe 5 on Facebook plus experimental budgets when I started in the industry. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Thanks Doug! Yeah, I actually worked on an algorithm that adjusted bids for an account with a 9 figure budget.  We found certain weather patterns that showed higher revenue\/click from users. It has hilariously nuanced I agree with that! @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

What about when the % of spend was 25 percent standard now I see agencies going as low as 5 or 6% because Google is easier etc. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Created an almost unfair advantage because of our budget. @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@runnerkik<\/a> are you seeing pushback on prices for new clients? @Pete_Bowen<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The funny thing @runnerkik<\/a> is that, while some of the basics are easier, IMO it is MORE difficult today to maintain a high-performing account. The bar for being brilliant at the basics is higher. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

But sure, there are still scumbag dipshit I’d-love-nothing-more-than-to-destroy-them agencies that want to charge 5% of spend. My default reply when clients ask me about those types of agencies is: that’s the most expensive 5% you’ll ever pay. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I mean, tbh there’s a level where 5% makes sense. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@Pete_Bowen<\/a> Yes, I am 100% seeing it and they are asking for an expert for $500 a month or less than complaining…and @DigitalSamIAm<\/a> I am so against it too. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Everyone wants a bargain right now, at least from what I\u2019m seeing\u2026And a lot more of \u201cI\u2019d be doing this myself if I had the time\u201d people. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@runnerkik<\/a> sometimes you need to let the toddler touch the stove. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, I’m choosing violence today. @DigitalSamIAm<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@DigitalSamIAm<\/a> Me too. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The only issue I see for those lower 5% fees is that it’s not a lot of work until it is 3PC deprecation alongside consent mode opt-in is going to be MASSIVE changes that I don’t think people realize. It’s going to create a lot of work for us a PPC Professionals. @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@ferkungamaboobo<\/a> I disagree because of the support needed there I wholeheartedly disagree. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The inclusion of PMAX created a ton of churn for people. @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There is a graduated pricing model that grounds the cost to client in the cost to product the work (plus margin). This is and age-old model that most everyone can accept. As effort\/work scales, so too does the cost of services. Tying pricing to spend is never going to “work” long-term for clients. There has to be a front-end capture of value for the agency and an eventual cap for clients on the other side. @teabeeshell<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AI has been a huge change -and the fact that the answers from both the rep and the platform have turned into mostly “Trust the AI” – which is really hard to explain to clients\/troubleshoot\/etc. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q2: What are the services that you currently sell the most often and\/or most easily? Has this changed or shifted over the last 3 years?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Audits and account reviews are always easier sells when people are uncertain about economy. But ongoing work has been my bread and butter forever. I agree with @runnerkik<\/a> from question one that people are a bit delusional on what management should cost right now. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

At the moment I\u2019m selling ad-hoc consulting to new clients most often and easiest. I\u2019m doing this because I\u2019m trying to get out of day-to-day managing accounts and exploring new ideas\/opportunities for adding value. @Pete_Bowen<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@Pete_Bowen<\/a> I am leaning into the consulting\/guidance\/ideas piece myself! @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’ve only been back into the PPC world in the last year. Took a bit of a hiatus so I can’t speak to what worked years ago and not now. But I’ve really been fixated on a retainer-based model so I can invest the time to learn the business. I typically do a large sign-on fee alongside a monthly retainer and that helps ensure I get the right customers who intend to stick around for the long haul. @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So I don’t see much ads work, to be honest. The clients I have that run ads don’t have the budget to have someone even mind the store (which, imo means “don’t run the ads,” but we’ve trained everyone to think digital ads are a good call) @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> It\u2019s been really rewarding and it\u2019s exposed me to a range of clients I wouldn\u2019t have access to  \/ be able to service otherwise. @Pete_Bowen<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I most often work as staff aug, freelancing for other amazing agencies.  I love that and I am also training other agencies BUT you have to find an agency that puts training at the forefront.  Interestingly the agencies that invest in training and my consulting have the cleanest accounts and are going great things. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

A newer angle for me is, guidance\/consulting. I don’t HAVE<\/em> to be hands-on-keyboard for certain clients. If they have the time and willingness to learn, my role can retract into periodic advice-giving and experience-lending. They perform the daily\/weekly work, and I help steer the ship. @teabeeshell<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Travis – I think that’s the future as Google continues to make it less about being hands on and more strategically about getting the input data right and understanding the strategic value of the channel. @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That said, I don’t look forward to that time. Not enough conversion data in smaller accounts (<$20k \/ mo) in the B2B space at least @NicolasGarfinkel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

My bread and butter is managing accounts fully and that’s probably the most interest I see still at the moment. However, I’d like to expand into more offerings that are a little more hands-off. I think full management is going to change a lot with automation and people with expertise will find more opportunity in audits\/coaching\/consulting, etc. @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I do what @teabeeshell<\/a> does too, I will simply get on the phone and validate\/consult to clients and they execute. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

White-label has been a huge portion of revenues for us in the last 3 years. Thinking of trying audits as a productized service. Ongoing management & consultation remains bread and butter. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Pretty much all businesses are lured by the idea of a \u201cPPC easy button\u201d and all the automation and aggressiveness of Google reps puts that idea in their head. Meanwhile, we are over here thinking \u201cthere is no easy button.\u201d @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@HarrisonJHepp<\/a> I find straight up connecting directly with brand who want me to fully manage harder BUT that could also be my network at the moment. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m thinking of developing (warning heresy coming up) an auto-pilot offering for smaller businesses that can\u2019t justify monthly retainers. I\u2019ll be experimenting with this model 2nd quarter. @Pete_Bowen<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NicolasGarfinkel<\/a> those small budget accounts are getting so hard especially in B2B. I have a few and it’s a constant experiment.@HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@runnerkik<\/a> I think because that’s what I’ve been doing my referrals are coming in that way. Plus I have a couple agencies I work with that outsource their full management to me and they are bringing in clients who want to have their marketing handled. @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@Pete_Bowen<\/a> I was thinking the same thing -I just don’t see how that can be done well with the margins. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Accounts under the 50 conversions in 30-day level are SO MUCH HARDER to work within the last 2 years. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Happy to share my thinking on auto-pilot campaigns and how to make them profitable sometime outside this thread. @Pete_Bowen<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> they are so hard right now! But I also talk to brands at that side all the time. There are so many that want help! @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@HarrisonJHepp<\/a> Those accounts have historically been my jam too. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@Pete_Bowen<\/a> I’ve been rolling a similar idea around in my head because I’ve worked with a lot of small clients like this. Would be curious to chat with you more on that sometime! @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Still, Google PPC, which has gotten easier to sell as Google has gotten more complicated. We’ve seen less app install campaigns and paid Meta over the last few years, but that might just be the nature of our clients vs an overall trend. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> ugh, yes, and they need solutions, but Google isn’t giving them anything. @HarrisonJHepp<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

At some point, a conversion threshold HAS<\/em> to be the early-stage hurdle for brands. I don’t see that as a newer hindrance, just a published requirement (Meta and Google), less of a real shift. There are so many things a brand can do to ease conversion friction before spending money into ads platforms. The emerging reality may be, if you can’t leap this hurdle from Day 1 of spend, you may not yet be ready to spend on ads. That comes with a minimum spend requirement, sure, but the days of spending “X small amout” to “test and learn” have long been gone. @teabeeshell<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

My offerings haven’t changed much, because I’m in a giant machine. it’s all about omni strategy and budget management towards goals, rather than what some clients see as button tapping. But I’m about to have a lot of competition who can claim to do it all (pmax). I think we’ll see more divides between digital and traditional, away from teams like mine who manage it all. @JuliaVyse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We’ve had to deal with more GA4 implementation issues, because it’s so complicated and a lot of people are having tracking issues because of it. That’s the biggest change. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Google and Meta Ads audits and ongoing paid media management. I also sell a lot of SEO and CRO audits, although I have other senior consultants that I partner with to do that work. @Austin_Dillman<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@HarrisonJHepp<\/a> \/@NeptuneMoon<\/a> One trick I’ve found is to couple manual CPC with Automated Bidding for B2B accounts for smaller budgets. My theory is 2 fold:<\/p>\n\n\n\n