{"id":24851,"date":"2024-09-11T23:53:37","date_gmt":"2024-09-11T18:23:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/?p=24851"},"modified":"2024-09-11T23:53:39","modified_gmt":"2024-09-11T18:23:39","slug":"ppcchat-ppc-struggles-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/ppcchat-ppc-struggles-2\/","title":{"rendered":"PPCChat | PPC Struggles | 10th September 2024"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

This week’s PPCChat session, hosted by Julie F Bacchini<\/a>, covered topics including a recent Google Ads trial, an Optmyzr study on Ad Strength, and experts’ strategies for Q4 2024.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

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Q1: Are you following the current Google Ads trial? If so, any thoughts as it kicks off?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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You can follow along at this website: https:\/\/www.usvgoogleads.com\/<\/a> @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I loved this article https:\/\/monopoly.marketecture.tv\/p\/us-v-google-day-1<\/a> @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

If you\u2019re on Twitter, Jason Kint is a good follow to keep up with the trial. I am really interested to see how the previous trial plays into this one. I feel like some of the testimony from the first one was in some ways setting the table for this trial. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

What’s his handle? @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@robert_brady<\/a> Jason Kint (@jason_kint) on X @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In general, I think this is popcorn-worthy, but we know that real effects will be nil. That’s not just nihilism, it’s a recognition that most of these kinds of things are academic at best. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yea, and the ad: tech programmatic space is a bit fragmented, Google is guilty or rigging the auction but it isn\u2019t a monopoly in the space anymore. Plus their network revenue is going down & is 10% of total. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am awaiting more juicy testimony. Wonder if our pal Jerry Dischler will make another appearance. Google is also been in trouble for destroying evidence. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@ferkungamaboobo<\/a>  agree. zero, it\u2019s cost of doing business sadly. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> That’s been what I’ve found interesting in the last trial verdict – getting some real numbers on things to extrapolate. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’m following Jason Kint on Twitter, he has great write-ups. I am torn on this, guessing all that’s ever going to happen is G getting a slap on the wrist and that’s it. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, @BorisBeceric<\/a> he is attending the trial and does recaps. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I found an interesting medium article while on Twitter with a different take that I liked, was a fresh perspective. https:\/\/medium.com\/chamber-of-progress\/the-dojs-ad-tech-trial-against-google-isn-t-really-about-ad-tech-1267a94120fa<\/a> @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I do think there’s… a lot of weird takes. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am sure we will talk about this again as the trial will go on for weeks. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Weird takes because it’s a highly technical topic and not many people are in the trenches and know how ads work etc. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, also that… Hmm. I need to read more on this trial, but I see a lot of “well why is this defined THIS way” and we as advertisers don’t really know jurisprudence. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

idk, I’m kinda hopeful that they are going to be forced to play a bit more nice, but I fully know I am just being naive. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

“Why is this market defined this way” is a question that you can argue from case law, but I see so little citing of case law examples from the advertiser-pundits. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think the exhibits will be of interest to all of us as we see what Google execs say about things and how they behaved. There were some doozies from the first trial. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, will make for some good rage posts. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The nice thing about having executives under oath (and in a situation where they can’t plead the 5th) is that you cut away the marketing-speak that Google uses and get to the heart of the matter. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Another Google post came out on Twitter, though it borders on the politics. Sting operation of a Google Growth Strategist. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m generally salty about Google this week because Google Ads is not working properly and I have a client breathing down my neck for data I can\u2019t access. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

LOL don’t get me started on the “Google Small Business” account on Twitter. Advertisers getting robbed, account goes on to chirp about how much they love SMBs. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The interface has been acting like it’s held together with duct tape and baling twine for years now. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@robert_brady<\/a> It is so bad. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a>  tell me about it, I couldn’t see graphs on any of my accounts, stuff breaks all the time. Like they have all this moncey, maybe they should be fixing the product for once. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And this was their blog post released pre-trial in their defence @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"And<\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

I can\u2019t see ad previews right now. And I need to grab screenshots of them for a report. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Google “yeah we cheated, but WE THE BEST” @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@alimehdimukadam<\/a> And the line where they say that they help SMBs get ads in front of customer “cheaply”. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Google is giving of major \u201cyou\u2019re just jealous you\u2019re not us\u201d vibes. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cLet\u2019s not break what\u2019s working\u201d @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

“Guys we raking it in, just chill for a minute will you” @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Their PR has been off. But Google’s never been good at PR. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I mean Ginny is their PR let’s be honest here. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Their messaging is universally awful. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nah, but that’s not Ginny’s role. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don’t know how to articulate it in a legal way, but Google has a virtual monopoly on search intent data. That is how they turn everything else into cash-printing machines. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

To talk about legal I mean. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ginny does her best to try to give us the straight scoop, within the parameters she is given. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, 100% – I’m impressed by the liaisons in general and a necessary role. it’s a hard one, and people don’t want to hear the truth. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yea, agreed & given the environment, I can only imagine. Not easy and not appreciated very often. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Is it bad that my immediate reaction to this question was “Which one?” @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q2: Inspired by the Optmyzr study released yesterday on Ad Strength – have you changed the way you write ads lately? Do you plan to test some things in the coming months?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Here is the study: https:\/\/www.optmyzr.com\/blog\/google-ad-strength-study\/<\/a> @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, I won\u2019t be so anti-pinning for sure! @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Oh, I’ve really been digging into how to write ads lately. Depending on how much available impressions there are, if certain messaging needs to appear at all times etc. RSA make it really hard to write good ads, but there’s an art to it. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I said this earlier but it bears repeating: this simply is in line with general advice from help files. It’s almost like they want to give us correct information. I have curiosity about the data and error bars and things like that. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I was surprised by the shorter copy performing better. As I said in my comments in the post, I understand why that is right now. Google slices and dices and puts pieces together so differently now. But it is so against my hard wiring to use ALL THE CHARACTERS.  @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I do usually tend to get my ad strength to good, but sometimes pinning works & AI suggestions of add unique headlines quickly turn into a comedy. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I guess it’s in line with Google showing shorter ads in the SERP as well, like one HL being out in to the description etc. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And they keep testing single headlines and different formats that are not all visible but are spotted here and there. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think that at some point we might only have assets and not separate headlines and descriptions. And Google will combine them based on the parameters of where the ad is shown. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I do think the big thing – and this is a theme across paid search and to a lesser degree display – there’s precious few real triggers in ad copy. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It did look like that but won\u2019t be possible for legal, medical & other fields where copy needs to be approved by legal. Can\u2019t trust AI. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

and so my big thing is talking about “well what makes a good ad” and the biggest one (and lol this also is the main trigger for higher ad strength) is matching the search term in the headline. and it’s like, we’re not doing branding with search ads. we’re not running cool campaigns for 99.999999% of the campaigns that we run. you have, I need. I dunno, we overcomplicate this stuff so much and it’s just tiring. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The more metrics and reports get added – the more complexity. Ad strength – case in point. There were some brilliant search ads during ETA era. The more metrics and reports get added – the more complexity. Ad strength – case in point. There were some brilliant search ads during ETA era. Now it\u2019s a bit mechanical @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Google decides what your ads are (unless you pin everything) and it often picks \u201cwinners\u201d for headlines and descriptions with very little data. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right, but the thing is I don’t think those descriptions matter in general. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Good thing though – it\u2019s not a hard & fast rule and like all things in ppc – everyone gets to choose how they want their ads to be, so far. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The days of testing ad copy are long behind us in ads for the most part. I accept that. It\u2019s just interesting to me how fast Google settles on ads that \u201cwork\u201d @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Are you saying we\u2019ve developed search ad blindness also along with banner blindness?Possible, Headline only world. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I was thinking of testing shorter descriptions for mobile only as I noticed most that I see on SERP are truncated. It is currently in the pipeline for one of my clients. However, I’d have to separate the campaign by device in order to do so. Thinking of testing it with brand campaign first. @LindaCorzo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q3: How are you feeling as we come to the end of Q3 of 2024? What is on your plate for Q4 2024?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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I have exactly ZERO ecomm clients and this makes me super happy. No BFCM madness fo rme anymore. So in that regard, it’s going to be much more chill then previously. @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I had ecomm client only once during Q4 and I vowed NEVER AGAIN. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Holding my breath to see what changes Google and Meta announce next. Feel like there’s something every week at this point. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

OMG @revaminkoff<\/a>  it\u2019s almost like they don\u2019t understand what advertisers want & need\u2026@NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am at crossroads, want to pivot\/expand, work only as white label partner to focus on deliverables & not on client service.And I may move to Canada in Jan 25, not too keen on it, but it would be interesting to explore, so mapping next life steps.Maybe have backend ops here or not\u2026.lot of thoughts. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, like “Hey Google, please no major changes before Q4” @BorisBeceric<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

They did sunset eCPC @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q4: What else is on your mind this week in PPC?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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That it is September already! @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This summer absolutely FLEW by. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am still livid about Google Rep calling my client to discuss details about another client. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am concerned about the economy in general. Prospects are getting squirrely. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And have received email from another that has a different client in subject line But they have ccd another client with me in the email. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’m stuck on this question from the Paid Search Association slack:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I just joined twitter, who are good people in marketing to follow?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

And not who to follow on Twitter as a direct question but where do we send folks who want to learn. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Should be easy – search for\u00a0#ppcchat<\/a>\u00a0hashtag and follow all. \u00a0@alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@ferkungamaboobo<\/a> I have a PPC Chat & Industry Twitter list: https:\/\/x.com\/i\/lists\/1394701779514822658<\/a> @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

For sure, will drop that in the link. but as a broader question – not specific to twitter. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think learning and keeping up to date in PPC are also 2 different things. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That’s why I’m focusing on learning here — the kind of person joining twitter in 2024 is VERY early in their career. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ginny recommends the G Ads Skillshop lessons for basics. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> Yes for the economy, slowdown till late 2025-26 post-fed rate cut. (90% certainty). Oh I took the GAds test again for search. I can go on for another hour on that. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@alimehdimukadam<\/a> \u00a0are all the answers \u201clet Google do it\u201d? @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I never really had any problem with the take on the cert tests tbh.@ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Only three things
Automation
Broad Match
Smart Learning. Some 2-3 jumbled words were the answer for 30-40% It was like I was getting brainwashed just taking the test to go and switch to smart bidding and apply broad match. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Learn what Google wants you to do. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

True yes, but it was framed in a way that is not helpful for small accounts. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I guess, I need to reup my certs. got asked about it in an interview. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nothing about Google Ads is helpful for small accounts these days\u2026@NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

My first reaction after completing the test – I will probably not look at these certs and look for people with old one. It\u2019s easy, I just started and scored 86%, 80% is the cutoff. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

But to my point – skillshop is great, but if we’re going to say “go to Skillshop” out of one side of our mouth and “Google info is WRONG WRONG WRONG” out of the other. I dunno. \u00a0@ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There is a giant divide in this industry between people who have been in it 10+ years and those in it for less than 10, particularly for those in less than 5 years. How you learn things from go make a difference in how you think about things. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I didn\u2019t look at the new course material of skillshop, just attempted the test directly. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not saying newer folks are not smart or talented. But they never knew text ads for example. Automation in full swing. Match types – already fuzzy. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And if someone who comes to me and asks where to learn as starting point – I always send them to skill shop but ask them to do the digital marketing basics first, then do analytics, then do search\/display\/shopping. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sure but a lot of those things happened about when I started in the industry. well started to happen like, if we’re mourning 10-year-old tactics, how do we help the next generation? @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

If I were giving advice today I would encourage gaining knowledge in landing pages and CRO. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’m coming off wrong here, I mean it more “We all do this” @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Because as platforms get more and more automated, where businesses will differentiate their performance will be on their websites. Fair and poor websites have skated by for a long time and that era is ending. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think not a lot has been written\/spoken about mindset of a media buyer or a PPC specialist. Those fundamentals should survive all eras Tools & tactics can keep changing. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well yeah, I mean, sure. but also that’s what we said…. 13 years ago? it is deeply funny to me that the CRO tactics of the 60s LITERALLY are CRO tactics of today but I can’t tell someone to read ogilvy to help their PPC at that stage they’re too early, the connections have to be made and no shade at all. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Like what is the objective, What are you trying to do. Then think in terms of platforms & channelsI told a client yesterday that search is not the correct channel for him. Understanding those nuances with business understanding would help. + for LPs & CRO, Would also add growth\/email etc (at least basic knowledge) @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

for sure, I’m 100% all-in that it’s kinda ridiculous to be channel-specific. which also isn’t to say that there aren’t experts. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I look back at this now and have a smile – was a lockdown project that I made free. https:\/\/alimukadam.gumroad.com\/l\/GoogleAds\/linkedin<\/a> @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

But I was lucky, I got thrown into the deep end of the pool and I had a good lifeguard. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Nothing beats the deep end. And that\u2019s the most difficult part for new people who join, they\u00a0won\u2019t\u00a0grow the way we are hoping they might without the deep end and life guard. @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, I think it’s more the lifeguard. The mentors I had were invaluable in my career. And I can only hope I did some of that for my juniors. @ferkungamaboobo<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

With automation – my worry is what will the juniors do @alimehdimukadam<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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PPCChat Participants<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n