{"id":25722,"date":"2025-03-06T00:09:54","date_gmt":"2025-03-05T18:39:54","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/?p=25722"},"modified":"2025-03-06T00:09:57","modified_gmt":"2025-03-05T18:39:57","slug":"ppcchat-ppc-elephants-in-the-room","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/ppcchat-ppc-elephants-in-the-room\/","title":{"rendered":"PPCChat | PPC Elephants in the Room | 4th March 2025"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

This week’s PPCChat session was insightful. Host Julie F Bacchini<\/a> explored how to manage unrealistic performance expectations, strategies for maintaining results on reduced budgets, and ways to navigate tough conversations in reporting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

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Q1: What do you think are the current PPC elephants in the room? Are you addressing any of them with clients? And why or why not?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Here in the US it is the economy. New, significant tariffs just went into effect today. This is going to significantly negatively impact our economy (International Politics major here with a heavy dose of econ).I am absolutely talking with clients about it. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I guess the big one is Google won’t be the “only” game in town in the coming years. As we have seen over the past years, I suspect we will see an increase in the number of platforms we will have as options to advertise for our clients. When I started about 80% of the digital ads budget was used just for Google. These days it is more like 60-70%. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@Ichasse<\/a> I think AI is a part of that discussion too. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> \u00a0Yeah, going to be a rough ride for the countries we imposed them on and us. Guessing the market’s reaction the past couple days is a pretty good indication of the not so warm reception to the tariffs happening. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Attribution isn’t as reliable\/solid as we all want to believe. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> what you said. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Do most people know, for example, how many times car parts pass between Mexico, Canada and the US? It\u2019s a lot. I am very concerned for auto industry in the US. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@robert_brady<\/a> OMG, so true. The data is not even close to being reliable anymore. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019d second @robert_brady<\/a> , a lot of businesses are relying on shakey data to make decisions. Poorly managed CRMs, spastically significant tests. attribution modelling that\u2019s just not right, the list goes on\u2026@ChrisMurray<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The other aspect of the US economy is that it thrives on predictability. Right now there is so much chaos with the stuff coming out of executive orders and DOGE that it’s going to make people jittery (aka they won’t spend money) @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We should probably do a chat on disappearing data\u2026@NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Agreed that the data and attribution are just not super reliable and really hard to back into \/ defend the methodology of. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@robert_brady<\/a> Consumer confidence is dropping in the US, so spending will follow. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Also, the lack of transparency – the PMax reporting changes have been a nice step in the right direction, but most things are trending the other way. So: The Google Black Box @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> political confidence too, I saw an interesting conversation on reddit recently discussing the impact if the US *Dollar was no longer the standard trading currency. The fallout would be massive for all international businesses. @ChrisMurray<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I work in-house for a UK registered company currently but all our SaaS products trade in USD. @ChrisMurray<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

As someone in Canada, tariffs for sure @NeptuneMoon<\/a> \u00a0This is an on-going and unfolding event. The talk about hitting EU next is interesting. The only bonus is some Canadian clients are taking off because my fellow Canadians finally want to buy more Canadian made products. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yup, I am all for getting rid of waste and my grandkids cannot pay for the way we keep spending, but I heard one democrat say this and I liked it. We need to do this with a scapple, not a meat cleaver so we don’t break things on accident. The market would react much more favorably as well, so it would be more predictable. The tariffs and such right now are definitely the meat cleaver and not a scapple. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It would be hard to overstate what the impact will be of the political and economic fallout from the stuff happening in the US right now, IMHO. Upending the world economy and political order overnight does not do anything positive. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It can pass between Canada and USA a dozen times before that car is made. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think AI optimization will start to become a thing. People will start considering the best way to get their websites pulled into AI queries and optimize for that the same way they do for SEO. Ads will become easier to make with AI, but more black boxed as well. @jord_stark<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@Ichasse<\/a> Feels worse then the Year of Mobile. Google not being the only game in town has been years and years in the making. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The US is giving away all of the soft power it has built up over the last 100 years too. The impacts of that will likely reshape the world power structure. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Reasonable to expect EU tariffs are responded to with tariffs in kind, potentially including on big tech businesses operating here. How does the marketing landscape shift if it\u2019s less economical for meta, Google, X to operate in this market\u2026One outcome could be that they pass the costs onto customers, which is another elephant in the room – the artificial inflation of costs on Google and other channels that we as marketers have to accept. @ChrisMurray<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> – there are reasons why State Department and USAID were separate. Now, without having soft power boots on the ground, we’re more vulnerable to terrorist actions. @JeffreyHain<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ad platforms are breaking down at a much higher rate and our ability to trust documentation has gotten really strained. @navahhopkins<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q2: How do you incorporate tough conversations into reporting?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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We do it as honestly and as transparently as possible. We know that we don’t have all the answers, but we might be able to find wins if we put our heads together. @adwordsgirl<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I have just been honest, and I work with a couple other freelancers\/consultants with most of my clients, and they are saying the same things, so it helps. There is no sugar coating all this. The overall economy and the poor measurement of data are going to be tough on brands who expect certain ROAS targets to be reached. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We have 15+ ecom clients at any given time. We talk about what we are seeing across clients, what clients are seeing across the rest of the business and just get their POV. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Right now I’m using YoY data to show some of the effects of consumer confidence softening. It’s pretty clear in the data and leads into the convo really smoothly. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am always asking clients about things that might be impacting their business or industry that I am not aware of. So, the groundwork to talk about issues like uncertainty or a customer base struggling is already there. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s ok to address the reality of the data. But you had better have a plan on what you are going to do to improve things. Don’t go in empty handed. @jord_stark<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@jord_stark<\/a> What if there is no easy plan? Like if your customer base was government workers and they are losing jobs left and right? I would talk about can we expand our base, but that is not a short-term move in a lot of cases. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We need to be comfortable with saying there are things you don\u2019t know too, we simply cannot predict or know all of these things. @ChrisMurray<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> That is one of my first questions when we have our calls. What are you all seeing in your market? Then we talk about what we can possibly do to either get more of the share, smaller or otherwise. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Approach it as a partner – it is what it is, but let’s talk about how we want to adjust accordingly. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I try to use that data I have as well from trending data and the merchant center and to dwanes point other clients. I try to base everything I see in some data.\u00a0 Or reputable news source. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In all likelihood, the plan won’t be perfect. It might even be a plan to minimize damage, but if you foresee a certain future, there is always an optimal way to respond to that future. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@NeptuneMoon<\/a> \u00a0I would say it probably isn’t going to be an easy plan, it’s not about easy, it’s more about good. Make sure you have put time and research into your proposal as a partner and it is usually received well. @jord_stark<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Also, I try to keep politics out of it – it doesn’t help anything. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

As a consumer, I have already gotten emails from brands I have bought from telling me\/explaining the need for price increases. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Really @NeptuneMoon<\/a>? I haven’t seen any brands do this, but would not be surprised if they do that. @KarinaMontenegro<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, they were pretty specific in how their costs are increasing and how they don\u2019t have other options if they want their businesses to survive. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is such a good play though, like it makes you feel empathy for the brand and increases loyalty. @KarinaMontenegro<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tackling tough conversations head on with data, human empathy and industry-wide context. @navahhopkins<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q3: How do you handle budget cuts or freezes due to macroeconomic uncertainty? What strategies can PPC managers use to maintain performance on reduced budgets?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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Target wisely! Please! That means geographically, demographically, and most importantly, affinity\/interest\/in-market\/1st party data, etc. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s all about trade-offs. Keeping top performers funded is vital, but you can’t overfocus on bottom of funnel or your demand will dry up down the road. Might have to focus on fewer platforms. Always difficult decisions. \u00a0@robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

You have to have very honest conversations with clients about the impact of a budget cut. Don\u2019t just assume that they will know that if they spend less they will get lesser results. SPELL IT OUT. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is one that is interesting because agencies that bill based on percent of spend get really upset by this and say things like when everyone else is cutting it’s an opportunity which can be true but for me this is where being independent helps. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s part of the reason percent media can be problematic – but as agencies\/consultants, given the uncertain business and political environment in the US right now, I think we also have to be prepared to take a hit regardless of the model. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In the past I’ve reviewed all campaigns (search, display, video) and ad groups to assess KPIs. Those with low ROAS were stopped to save budget. Others that were meeting targets stayed active, but budget was reduced. @JeffreyHain<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I do ask if we are able to weather the storm, so to speak, because historically we always come back out of this stuff. If the brand can weather the storm, we can actually come back with increased market share if the industry as a whole is cutting budgets. It can be a potential opportunity in many cases. Some brands do not have the funds to weather the storm and do need certain ROAS targets in order to stay in business, but the ones who can take a small hit can come back very strong when things settle. I suspect it will settle and things will come back, but I am an optimist at heart, so that is always my thought anyway.\u00a0We will do what they need to do for their business as a good partner. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Reduced budget isn’t a death sentence though – yes, the AI and the platforms want more money and more data, but especially if you use good targeting\/keywords etc. you can still get a lot for a little. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@runnerkik<\/a> That is exactly why I never charge a % of spend. My clients will trust me more to be on their side of an issue vs. thinking (even if they don’t say it out loud) that I am just trying to keep their spend high so I get paid more. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We have not had a \u201cgreat pricing debate\u201d chat in a while either\u2026I am also not a fan of % of spend. It creates greater potential misalignment in client and PPC provider priorities. I agree with what @Ichasse<\/a> said to about talking to clients about their tolerance for weathering rougher waters. Because there absolutely can be opportunity to grab market share if others are all aggressively contracting and you are holding steady. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Just cut the fat when you have less budget to work with. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ya, % of spend can lead you into catch-22’s. I go out of my way to avoid it because the few times I’ve been in that situation, it feels like any recommendations on increasing spend seem like a conflict of interest. All our clients are retainer or hourly fee based, currently no % of spend. We have done tiered rates before if the labor involved in larger budgets changes the workload. So above X amount = this much more on a monthly basis, or similar. @timmhalloran<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Agree with all of this – only thing I’ll add is I tend to make sure advertisers understand what they might lose in dialing back budgets. @navahhopkins<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Q4: How do you address unrealistic performance expectations when clients or stakeholders demand \u201cpre-recession\u201d results? What data points can help reset expectations?<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
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My personal favorite are the clients demanding 2019 results…@revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sometimes we have to, as I like to say, give clients a stick of the reality gum. I try to always be generally positive, but there are times when a client is just delusional about performance that can be achieved. Why no, we can\u2019t compete against a behemoth spending $50 a day\u2026 @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sometimes the discussion may lead to a separation. Trying to reach unrealistic goals & failing is soul-sucking. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Benchmarks help. Being able to say what’s happening with other clients in the same space is helpful too, so they know they’re not alone. @revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Omg I was thinking fire them but @robert_brady<\/a> said it.. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I also think that sometimes we have to talk to clients about how their market may have shifted.I did work for a coding school (adults). PPC was going great until all the big tech companies started doing big layoffs. Suddenly \u201clearn to code while you keep your day job\u201d was not very appealing.I wasn\u2019t able to help regain what we had previously achieved. The market literally evaporated. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Try not to\u00a0laugh on the call, and tell them it is not going to happen. That ship has sailed. @duanebrown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That said I have gotten pretty good about projections so I work through the math. @runnerkik<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is a tough one, tbh. The thing I’ve found can work is showing competitors dealing with the same thing. I’ll check Spyfu or auction insights to explain that a lot of people in the auction are spending less, or being more strategic with their KW\/placement choices. It’s not always perfectly clear but it gives them more insight into the whole market. A lot of this is based on trust though. If you have a client that doesn’t trust you, it really doesn’t matter what you say or what you show. @timmhalloran<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Covid seemed to break everything! Nothing has been the same since we had those crazy results as taxes have increased, inflation went to high single to low double digits in the U.S., and it never came back down. Google’s CPCs have increased substantially as well over the time period, even with less market share. I am honest again and don’t try and sugar coat it. The fly by night agencies who come in and say they can hit the past numbers are always trying to get more business, but I tell clients you are welcome to try, but just being honest, you will never see those numbers again unless we come out with new services or products that drive big demand. We always are trying everything in the toolbox to try and get higher numbers and that is what our job is. Try to diversify spending and be honest. There is no real long-term value in saying you can hit those numbers and then not reaching them again. Oh, and we have the attribution issues with our data not being as good as it was. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I find that things like Pew Research reports can also be helpful to set expectations in some areas where you need an outside their account perspective. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

People’s discretionary spending is just down. $100 is not worth what is was in 2019-20. Businesses and people have less money to invest in the nice to have products\/services. As a good friend of mine always says, “it is just math”. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And the inflation shows up everywhere. clicks are more expensive etc. on the business side, on top of goods being more expensive and experiences being more expensive…@revaminkoff<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Based on their pocket books, people will make decisions on ‘need to have’ vs. ‘like to have’ … and we have no control there. @JeffreyHain<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@revaminkoff<\/a> It is nice when there is enough account history to be able to show just how much CPCs have gone up over the past few years. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@JeffreyHain<\/a> On that note, I also think that we have to remind clients which category their product or service is actually in when times are tighter. Because businesses often swear they are a need when they are, in fact, a want. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

And helping people remember that “doing nothing” could be a serious competitor to their product\/service. @robert_brady<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, like auto will probably be hit hard by the tarriffs. Auto prices will more than likely go up and even used autos will suffer with increased prices as new vehicles go up in price and folks look for alternatives. This is going to have a big impact just as it did during and after Covid. @Ichasse<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@robert_brady<\/a> \u00a0I saw April Dunford at a Seer Interactive event years ago and she was talking about positioning and hammered that point home. And I never forgot it. One of your competitors is ALWAYS nothing. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

@Ichasse<\/a> \u00a0I am so glad we replaced both of our cars in the last 4 months\u2026 cause we absolutely needed to. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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PPCChat Participants<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n