{"id":9298,"date":"2019-07-24T17:21:40","date_gmt":"2019-07-24T11:51:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/?p=9298"},"modified":"2019-07-25T00:14:04","modified_gmt":"2019-07-24T18:44:04","slug":"ppcchat-ppc-bigger-picture-23-july-2019","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.karooya.com\/blog\/ppcchat-ppc-bigger-picture-23-july-2019\/","title":{"rendered":"PPCChat | PPC in the Bigger Picture | 23rd July 2019"},"content":{"rendered":"

This week’s PPCChat session’s\u00a0 topic was \u201cPPC In The Bigger Picture\u201d . Host Julie F Bacchini’s questions focused on how PPC fits in to a larger marketing strategy, how PPCers work with their marketing teams and more.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Q1: Do you work on and\/or are you privy to larger marketing strategies for your clients (or your company if you\u2019re in-house)?<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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As much as we can. We like to set out the online marketing strategy & with the insights we get we advise on the overall marketing & business strategy. But not all clients want\/appreciate that or sometimes there is no budget which leaves us more on the tactics side.\u00a0@StephanieErne<\/a><\/p>\n

YES! Viewing PPC as only moving levers and getting results is old school. Today PPC needs to be so tied into strategy, that I spend quite a bit of time helping inform other areas of marketing! @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

Yes – Our PPC & SEO teams try and work as close together as possible, so we regularly have both teams interact for clients engaging in both services! It’s easier said than done, but extremely effective when done right. @DarthSamK<\/a><\/p>\n

Yes! I’m lucky as a strategist where I get to integrate a variety of tactics into a plan that best fits the client I’m working with. I’m a PPCer myself but have access to so much more in agency. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

Sometimes, as a freelancer I do ask about high level strategies (catalog, offline marketing, etc..) and sometimes it is shared. The more that is shared the better we can do for our clients. @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n

For the most part, yes. It really depends on the company. If they’ve got a Marketing manager, them brief us on new campaigns & what not they’re working on. If they don’t, we’ll take the lead & help them has out the details. @adwordsgirl<\/a><\/p>\n

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Q2: Is there sharing of data, strategy or any other information between your PPC team and other teams working on different aspects of your client\/organization\u2019s marketing?<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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In a word, YES. #ppcchat\u00a0\u00a0@EPLdigital<\/a><\/p>\n

Yes – sometimes we have to dig\/push a bit to get the information we need, and it helps a lot having one person as the ‘account lead’ so they have a bigger picture on what’s important. @DarthSamK<\/a><\/p>\n

I can see a fair amount in Google Analytics, but I always ask about what other parts of the marketing team are doing so I know and can make recommendations that might amplify other efforts and\/or not cannibalize what I’m trying to do…@NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n

Yes, because we all have access to the same analytics and we use changelogs\/conversations in Asana to share information. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

My wish: Always. Reality: This really depends on the business and culture.@StephanieErne<\/a><\/p>\n

If our agency is doing all the marketing, then absolutely yes. If not, we still try to understand and work with the other teams to get the full picture. @Mel66<\/a><\/p>\n

Yes, I work with a few agencies to help them as needed and we are always very good about sharing data. Some of my best clients are other agencies who I am a remote worker for essentially! @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n

Again, depends on the company. Some Marketing Managers are really open and some prefer for us to tell them the results and leave it there. @adwordsgirl<\/a><\/p>\n

Still within PPC but sharing search data with the social team is huge. Building custom audiences off of utm_term is big. Sharing creative tests with content teams to invest more in \u201cwinning\u201d concepts. Share messaging with marketing automation for consistency. @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

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Q3: In your experience, how likely has it been for different parts of the overall marketing team to actively work together? Please include if you\u2019re agency or in-house and how many years you\u2019ve been in PPC in your answer!<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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In an Agency — When SEO & PPC are both at our agency, we actively work together on a monthly basis (at least) to ensure we’re all working towards the same goal. At this agency for about 3 years now.\u00a0When SEO & PPC are at different agencies, it depends on the other agency. We’ve worked with some who were great about collaborating, we’ve worked with a lot who are a bit more walled off @DarthSamK<\/a><\/p>\n

More often than not, it’s been an integrated effort whether in house or agency. I was in house for 5 years and have been agency for 12 years at both a small and large agency. @Mel66<\/a><\/p>\n

I have been in marketing for over 20 years. In-house, freelance, agency, all have struggles to get the company to work together. It takes a concerted effort to ensure folks are talking. I try and take the lead on that whenever possible. @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n

I have been independent\/consultant for 20 years and working in PPC since is first started. But, I used to do both SEO & PPC. I do whatever I can to facilitate sharing of info. Equal but different challenges w\/ direct clients & when I do work for other agencies. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n

In agency, depends on the size of the agency. I feel like as they grow the cross team collaboration diminishes except on the largest accounts. My experience with client side\/clients is that marketing teams are often siloed and there is limited overall comms.\u00a0A3 cont’d I’ve been in agency for 5 years (two agencies) and freelanced client side. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

Easy to give lip service to integration, challenging in actuality. Clear, consistent communication from the start is key to requesting the info you need, and getting the right stakeholders involved. Agency, ~9 yrs in PPC\u00a0\u00a0@timothyjjensen<\/a><\/p>\n

Agency. Within our agency collaboration is really good. Between Agency and client teams often the sharing part… well we need to be on top of it constantly. Communication is so important. Been in PPC for 7 years now. @StephanieErne<\/a><\/p>\n

If the client works with another agency it depends on that other agency or freelancer. I would say it’s been 50\/50 on people who are great to work with and people who refuse to collaborate. We choose to always work in the best interests of our clients. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

Agency Side: We had a unique structure where we had separate teams internally. Each team had PPC, SEO, Design, Dev, Link building etc. While specialists did what they were good at, we\u2019d all be on kick off calls and meet together for bigger idea concepts. @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

Honestly, not that likely up until recently. I decided to start growing the company a little while ago and with that I started asking that we be part of the process a bit more. @adwordsgirl<\/a><\/p>\n

In-house Start-Up: Worked very closely together. Easy to do when there aren\u2019t a lot of people. You might be a specialist but you\u2019re definitly a part of the overall plan. 400M+ Public Company: Almost none. We were treated as fulfillment for product\/brand marketers. @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

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Q4: Is there data that you don\u2019t have access to that you wish you did from other parts of the marketing team?<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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the money.\u00a0@EPLdigital<\/a><\/p>\n

Getting detailed sales data (revenue, attribution by source, etc.) is often a struggle with clients. @timothyjjensen<\/a><\/p>\n

I find that SMBs don’t have 100% clear sales\/customer value data that would be very helpful. @DarthSamK<\/a><\/p>\n

Usually. Sometimes it helps to be on the same page about what we are seeing and to discuss, and sometimes people don’t want to talk. I like knowing what tools they’re using as well. The thing that infuriates me is sharing altered data (i.e. removing conv.) WHY!? @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

Yes, for small business clients, getting anything regarding back-end metrics can be a challenge. They might not have analytics setup nor such for reporting this. Candidly, if they feel like ppc is helping or hurting their business, that’s the most important data.\u00a0@jdb426<\/a><\/p>\n

For the businesses that require leads that they have to nurture, I would love to get more feedback in regards to whether or not they closed that’s that’s not information that we’re privy to in the moment. @adwordsgirl<\/a><\/p>\n

Sometimes it is about educating the client on keeping track of their data – getting CRMs or other tools in place. Clean data matters so much. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

Like everyone else is saying, back end\/funnel metrics. Either clients won’t share, or they can’t figure out how to. And it almost never ties back to more than campaign level. It’s tough. @Mel66<\/a><\/p>\n

I like to know when other things happen, like email and social promotions for example. From end clients, I agree about almost always wanting much better feedback and details about what happens w\/ the leads we sent them. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n

At the very least I want to know when the site is updated. Please. Pretty please. Just tell me. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

Really depends. But often the case is, they forget to mention new stuff they are working on so you get to hear it a bit later, while you could have added some great ideas if you were involved earlier. (or prevented some disasters). @StephanieErne<\/a><\/p>\n

I feel like this isn\u2019t a problem of being willing but rather just being forgetful or inept lol. Backend metrics, Promos, Product launches, events, introducing new channels. @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

Some of this is on us as marketers too. How often are you asking what they have coming down the pipe in their business? Do you make the effort to talk to clients? @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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Q5: Is there data you have that you wish that other teams would ask for and utilize in their efforts?<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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I would just settle for people being willing to collaborate in the first place. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

Yeah, why doesn\u2019t SEO look at our Paid Search campaigns\u2026 I\u2019m telling you THESE THINGS CONVERT!!!! Also\u2026 I\u2019d love for brand\/product marketers to just test positioning with me through ads\u2026 I bet it\u2019d be more effective to spend a few thousand on ads and measure CTR than to do a focus group\u00a0@markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

Anything is better than nothing! Even asking to have a standing 30 minute conversation on a monthly basis to bring anything they think is important would be a great start. @DarthSamK<\/a><\/p>\n

Their SEOs asking for data would be one, but also (1) product page conversion data and (2) landing page data. The product team can use this to improve information on the product pages as well as the landing pages to help with conversion rates. @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n

Demographic data can be incredibly helpful to inform broader efforts. For instance, looking at the specific titles\/industries\/etc. from LI audience insights. @timothyjjensen<\/a><\/p>\n

I wish content teams would ask me for data about what phrases are converting well on the paid side. I’m always interested in how things work the same & differently in different content types and discovery paths. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n

Just echoing what most of us are saying, it’d be nice if the SEO team would consult with us. We should be working together! @adwordsgirl<\/a><\/p>\n

No, because if I think it is really important I just ‘push’ it. But I do find sometimes on client side people interpret data wrong or don’t know the existing of something they can use. I think that is a bigger issue. @StephanieErne<\/a><\/p>\n

SEMs\/SEOs consulting with copy\/content folks helps everyone better understand BOTH the consumer language AND what words\/phrases drive KPIs. Everybody wins!\u00a0@SEM_PPC_MattV<\/a><\/p>\n

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Q6: Have you learned anything from another part of a marketing team that has changed or improved the way you think about or implement PPC?<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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I learned a lot from focus groups and user studies for some brands that helped with PPC a ton. Messaging, imagery, landing pages, pricing, etc…@lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n

I’ve worked with many clients who know their products\/services inside and out far more than I ever will. It’s important to listen to their insight as to what resonates with their customers, who their best audiences are, etc. (cont.)\u00a0 Sometimes, data might prove their insights faulty, and you should encourage testing assumptions. But don’t discount the time and effort they’ve spent on the inside of an industry @timothyjjensen<\/a><\/p>\n

SO much. The reason I am as strong of a strategist as I am is because of incredible colleagues in design, dev, SEO, CRO, and UX. @amaliaefowler<\/a><\/p>\n

I utilize experience from my SEO days all the time in the way I think about and research for PPC! Full disclosure – I spoke about this very topic at Hero Conf this year. @NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n

Yes – I love having a full SEO\/Design\/Web Dev team to talk to at my agency. They can bring up things I’ve never thought of when it comes to ads, UX, landing pages, keyword research, and much more. @DarthSamK<\/a><\/p>\n

Yeah\u2026 Sales, CRM, Finances\u2026. OPTIMIZE FOR CLOSED WON.I love auditing lead gen acconts where they aren\u2019t even thinking about lead quality or SQL\/SAL. @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

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Q7: What do you wish other parts of marketing teams understood about PPC that they often don\u2019t understand?<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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That you can’t “try PPC” in a highly competitive industry without an adequate budget (and a timeline of longer than 1 month). Also, seasonality impacts more businesses than you’d think at first glance!\u00a0@NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n

I do not have a crystal ball, nor can I see the future, so please don’t expect me to know exactly what is going to happen when we launch new PPC initiatives ahead of time. We base our decisions on the best data available & then have to put it out there & see!\u00a0PPC does not generate demand, it captures it. Paid social for brand awareness is the exception to this general rule.@NeptuneMoon<\/a><\/p>\n

I CAN RANT ALL DAY! IF THE CATEGORY IS UNDERDEVELOPED SEARCH IS PROBABLY A BAD OPTION AND IF SOMEHOW IT DOES WORK IT IS GOING TO BE SUPER LIMITED @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

Please determine goals & success KPIs before the test, not during. Lost count of how many tests were doomed to fail b\/c success was not defined in advance. @SEM_PPC_MattV<\/a><\/p>\n

That you can’t accurately gauge PPC’s viability for your business with a “quick test” on a low budget. @timothyjjensen<\/a><\/p>\n

I’ve said this before – PPC isn’t a “short term” strategy! Just because you can see quick results doesn’t make a strategy short term! Another thing – just because something doesn’t work doesn’t necessarily mean it was a failure! If you’re doing the work right, you can learn from all our campaigns @DarthSamK<\/a><\/p>\n

That they are not their own targetgroup. Often you need to consult on the fact that it is not the business owner or marketing employee him\/herself we’re targeting but the potential customer. What they personally like or dislike does not really matter. @StephanieErne<\/a><\/p>\n

Talking competition is the biggest thing. Someone else mentioned high CPCs, but sometimes clients will point out CPC used to be…. Competition is tough and growing in most industries. @lchasse<\/a><\/p>\n

THIS ONE IS CRAZY\u2026 YOU READY GUYS\u2026 YOU CAN\u2019T SCALE ROAS OR CPA LINEARLY WHEN YOU\u2019RE AT 100% IMPRESSION SHARE OF WHAT YOU\u2019RE CURRENTLY DOING @markpgus<\/a><\/p>\n

How much time do we have… 1. It’s ADVERTISING, not marketing 2. It’s not technical like SEO 3. You can’t write the ads for me b\/c you’ll do it wrong 4. No it’s not similar to social ads 5. Most important…Your ads WILL NOT APPEAR every time you do a search. @jdb426<\/a><\/p>\n

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Q8: What is something that baffles you about other aspects of marketing that you wish you understood better?<\/strong><\/h4>\n

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<No answers><\/p>\n

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PPCChat Participants:\u00a0<\/strong><\/h4>\n