The past few weeks have brought big changes to PPC, from OpenAI testing ads and Meta launching ads on Threads to TikTok moving toward a US spinoff. Host Julie F Bacchini unpacked how PPC pros feel about ads coming to ChatGPT, the TikTok shake-up, and which platforms truly fit their brands.
Q1: What are your thoughts about ads coming to ChatGPT specifically and AI platforms in general? Is this something you would plan to test if you had access?
I think the fact that they are:
- Doing impression-based only
- Not giving any performance data to advertisers besides impressions
- And charging NFL tv level rates. IS HILARIOUS. @NeptuneMoon
I totally understand them going to a view-based model to start, but would want to make SURE i have sound attribution in place because ain’t no way I’m trusting their first go at conversion tracking (if it ever arrives). The CPM is indeed crazy high, but to be fair they’re also creating a brand new market. It’s on paper expensive, but who knows if they get targeting spot on correct it could be crazy cheap….? That’s a big if. @Aaronlevy
I would test it in the sense I’d test most things. I don’t agree with the structure; it feels like a first-to-market investment rather than actual performance. @JuliaVyse
$60 CPM is high with a min commitment of $1mnIt didn’t work for Perplexity. @alimehdimukadam
IMO this’d be a good fit for progressive/non-AI SaaS companies and travel to start. @Aaronlevy
It also signals to me that this is being rushed out. OpenAI hired ad platform folks from big platforms. They know what is really needed. And yet, this is getting launched. @NeptuneMoon
FWIW their CPM is comparable to Netflix’s when they first launched (which quickly came down). @Aaronlevy
Fwiw, Netflix was also Microsoft ad teams at first, and they really biffed it. @JuliaVyse
But I assume Open AI will work coz of the hype so short term boost but need a platform and attribution It’s an MOF channel. Too early to say. @alimehdimukadam
Also, only big brands are going to test this, so any results we see reported are not applicable to non-household brands. @NeptuneMoon
AI Platforms are promising, but not super impressed with what I’ve heard about the Chat GPT offering so far — the lack of transparency is always problematic. @revaminkoff
Too many questions for me at this point, even when the costs come down/it is open to the general market. @NeptuneMoon
I would test it, for sure, to see how it works. $60 CPM for B2B is not that bad! We hope the reports will improve over time, like P. Max did? @CarolinaTorres
@JuliaVyse forgot about that weird little CTV company they bought and quickly stopped talking about. @Aaronlevy
@alimehdimukadam If ChatGPT really has a $1M minimum, that would def be um… above the testing budgets of most businesses…@revaminkoff
We did first to market on a few platforms. When it’s done it’s good, but I don’t usually want to be the team that works the bugs out. @JuliaVyse
It’s a moot point at this point, because even if you could get over the CPMs and zero reporting, there’s no self-serve option. And a company like OpenAI is not going to hire a fleet of sales reps. So only the Nikes and GMs and L’Oreals of the world, probably via their agencies, will even have the opportunity (the privilege!) of running ChatGPT Ads And of course, they don’t care about performance metrics. @JyllSaskinGales
One of those is a client of ours. I’ll tell you how it goes. @JuliaVyse
The internet was predominantly display-based, and ads ran on CPMs before AdWords came on the scene and crushed them with CPC bidding. CPMs are the easy way to start, and they’re just skimming the cream off the top right now. Great opportunity for another LLM to swoop in. @robert_brady
I may be in the minority, but I think this is going to be like Google Ads first came out and will change digital advertising (the start of the change anyway). Do I think they are launching with costs way to high and almost zero attribution = yes. Easier to start high and then come down though. I also believe it will be difficult to crack into the top results. I am also of the mindset to test with ChatGPT, because Gemini and Copilot will not be far behind. @Ichasse
I will let others test and read what they write. @Chriskostecki
Q2: Are you currently doing any advertising on Threads and if not, do you plan to test there?
I don’t have anything on Meta. I am a big Threads user though. The ads I see are mostly for clothing, dog things and cosmetics/skin care. @NeptuneMoon
Nope. We’ve trialled it but it never performed. @JuliaVyse
Not on the cards for my B2B clients. We are sticking to Google, Bing and LinkedIn. I would love to read B2B case studies on Advertising in Threads, though. @CarolinaTorres
Not I, so I’ll just listen on this one. @robert_brady
Threads seems to be more of a “personal rant” platform than what Twitter used to be (big blend of personal and professional) – imo I don’t see it working except for simple/commoditised products (e.g. clothing dog things and cosmetics/skin care as @NeptuneMoon says). But curious to hear successes. @Aaronlevy
Did a small test with a brand, nothing meaningful and it underperformed IG. (Audience is the same in a way) @alimehdimukadam
Nothing on Threads, and unless it becomes a larger platform it will stay nothing. @Ichasse
We’ve been auto serving Ads on Threads for some time, however, we don’t see much traffic from it (UK Targeting) @Meriem
We do select threads placements in addition to others, but it is not all on. I typically use meta to amplify and do not chase performance too aggressively (because they make up numbers), and this helps amplify. @Chriskostecki
Q3: What are your thoughts on the US spinoff of TikTok? Were you previously advertising on TikTok and do you plan to continue?
I have never done any TT advertising. The whole concept of TikTok US is really something. And seems to be going about how well I expected it would. Funny how the surveillance angle is not being talked about now that it is US (and Saudi) owned…Different surveillance, but still surveillance. @NeptuneMoon
I’m on TT a lot. So far no big changes, but I mainly target Canada. @JuliaVyse
TikTok was hugely successful for cosmetics brands in the past, but given the shifting user base and sketchy new ownership group, I wouldn’t expect the new iteration to perform nearly as well as the previous… https://www.engadget.com/social-media/people-are-uninstalling-tiktok-and-downloading-an-indie-competitor-233345222.html @Aaronlevy
Funnily enough, TT and Meta are both very unwelcome platforms for gov up here, but TT more acceptable. @JuliaVyse
I read on X that they increased pricing for CapCut Pro version. My only concern is that there have been talks of retraining the algorithm- and that might break something and things could go wrong there. @alimehdimukadam
The interesting part to me is that TikTok blew up cause people genuinely loved it. Remaking it is a massive risk. A popular platform today can easily fall off a cliff if users fall out of love with it and/or find an alternative. @NeptuneMoon
& algorithm retraining will happen to control political narratives. No specific insight as far as advertising goes, haven’t observed or read anything yet. @alimehdimukadam
No real thoughts, we will see what happens. Some brands run small budgets on TikTok and honestly don’t see that changing too much unless it means the results improve with the change. Revenue is the goal, and if that increases, then so will spend. @Ichasse
It’s got a large installed user base, and most of them either don’t care who owns it (few users seemed concerned about the Chinese ownership) or don’t realize who owns it. If your customers are there, it’s likely worth testing. @robert_brady
And if you happen to be heavy on TikTok as a user, you may notice that some communities are very okay with ads and consider clicking to store or staying for the full minute a way of supporting their fave. Users aren’t just blindly seeing or not seeing ads; people have their own perspective on what a click can mean. @JuliaVyse
Q4: How do you decide which platforms are the right fit for the brand(s) you work with – what are your criteria for when to use a platform and how to test it?
I tend to come at this from 2 different perspectives.1 is what are we trying to do? Capture demand or generate it or both? Because different platforms are better for capturing vs. generating. So understanding what the priorities are helps with recommending the right mix.2 is where are we already advertising, and is there any room to grow what is happening there? And to we want to hedge against the main platform(s) we are currently using. Infinite growth while keeping efficiency is a myth. So being smart about when returns start to become diminishing is also an important part of the conversation. @NeptuneMoon
We test on a lot of platforms, but at the end of the day it depends on what the goal of the brand is. 90% of the brands I work with the goal is $$$ whether through leads or direct revenue. If a platform gives us great revenue, then it becomes a solid part of their marketing mix (simple math). @Ichasse
And maybe it is the type of accounts that I generally work on, but I love to advise brands to not sleep on smaller platforms that might drive some quality traffic to them! @NeptuneMoon
I would consider my clients goals and budget, audit were they are and evaluate if it’s fit for purpose and propose a plan to fill the gap. @CarolinaTorres
B2B and B2C can work on LinkedIn for tech products if you crack it. Creative wearout is quick. So analyzing and rotating copy in is key. Setting CPC limits can help get lower CPA, rather than just taking LinkedIn recos. Also, spending time on audience building is good with layering techniques. @AmberDeedler
What is the client’s goal and what is the client’s audience? @revaminkoff
1: Is our audience there and in the right mindset for what we’re trying to do? Do demographics/psychographics match our ICP?? 2: Do the economics work? to @NeptuneMoon‘s point it’s crucial to understand if there’s even a chance of things working. 3: Is there inventory available that fits 1 & 2? Sure people might be shopping for software on TikTok but how many of them? 4: (heh) test. And test with your absolute best stuff – if your best doesn’t work, well then….@Aaronlevy
Well, if this isn’t an opening to flex I don’t know what is! First: have we exhausted our core channels first? spreading ourselves too thin doesn’t help anyone. Next, is there risk of overlap or self-bidding, do you need a new platform for your message? Once the answer is yes to both, we go into our proprietary audience planning tool and look at where we can make the most impact. If it’s social, we would trial a new social platform. If it’s video, we’d look into video first. We’re very lucky to have it. @JuliaVyse
A big thing I look for is whether their product is something people are already looking for or something people would have no idea exists/need to be educated about. Search engines are best if people are looking for the product already – but otherwise some of the other ad platforms can play a larger role @revaminkoff
That is a great point about the maturity of the market for the product or service @revaminkoff And I’m not saying this just cause @navahhopkins is here, but Microsoft Ads gets slept on a lot for folks running Google Ads. If you are running Google Ads, testing on Microsoft Ads is really quite easy. Because just throwing more money at a successful Google Ads campaign does not automatically mean proportional gains for additional dollars spent there. Sometimes it does, but sometimes it does not. @NeptuneMoon
I do believe in Microsoft Ads with ad schedules to reduce spam. Also, making sure to QA the account level for sneaky settings that are automated. @AmberDeedler
I second @NeptuneMoon and @Aaronlevy that if your budget is being used effectively in existing channels, I would usually recommend sticking with that. However, having a test budget should also be part of the mix and that is where you go try new channels that have 1) lots of your prospective clients already and 2) may have lower competition and can be more efficient to justify future investment. @robert_brady
I always used to push for a now-new-next budget setup. 70% for old reliable, 20% for old stuff in new ways (think demand gen or AI max for a search only advertiser) and 10% for “hey lets see what happens and stay innovative.” @Aaronlevy
I also love the test budget approach. Especially when the expectations for that spend is pretty much nothing beyond – hey let’s see what happens if we run some ads here! And underlying all of this, as others have also said, it knowing your audience. And that means both understanding who currently buys your product/service and why they buy. And where those folks hang out online. @NeptuneMoon
I admire brands that are involved with customers and therefore know which channels they’re using and how they use them. @robert_brady
Just did the response to brief for the year. The topic of Trial vs Test was well-discussed. New platform = anything could happen = Trial. Hypothesis with limited variables = test. @JuliaVyse
Remember too that your data only shows you who is buying and not who might buy. So don’t get too hyper focused on only current buyers. You might miss an opportunity.And example I like to use is grandparents. Let’s say you have a baby oriented product or service. Your first thought would be parents. But grandparents buy lots of stuff for their kids (the parents in this case) and grandkids. But you might not target them cause you think it is just parents buying your stuff…@NeptuneMoon
Completely agree with @JuliaVyse Core channels first… everyone loves new toys before fully understanding them or fully knowing about who there audience is and where they are… And forget to ensure there basics are tested and maximised first. @Meriem
Same with elder care/independent living. You need the person who will join your community, and their adult kids who will host the difficult conversations. @JuliaVyse
Goals, budget. My formula has been 4s for a bit, but the components and levels of which vary based on the client needs and seasonality. @Chriskostecki
Goals & Objectives And whether the platform is a push or a pull or can be used for MOF (I have used Reddit, Quora & LinkedIn for MOF & works well in a lot of cases) Even platforms like Taboola can do well for advertorials and MOF contentThen it depends on what the past performance has been and what the client budget is – ultimately it comes to budget more or less and whether or not you feel you have maximized the current channel or need diversification. Regardless, I always recommend it to my clients to install the pixel of potential platforms whenever platform diversification talks happen. Even if you don’t advertise – it’s good to have to those pixels firing so at the very least, if you want to test – you can start with remarketing & see what happens. @alimehdimukadam
Q5: Which happens more often in your work – you bring a suggestion for an ad platform to test or the client/brand brings an idea of a platform to try to you?
We try hard to be the ones to present ideas. This is something I’ve heard many clients complain about over the years. As the reason why they are leaving their prior agency, and they feel like they are not proactive. @MenachemAni
In my experience it’s almost always been me suggesting the platform. Platform suggestions from clients are usually based on some newsworthy event or article they came across. @robert_brady
heavily depended on the type of client. If they were “WHAT’S THE ROAZZZZZ” on everything and/or stiff then it’d typically come from the team working on the account. If they were more innovative, would often come from the client. In a lot of cases, AM’s wouldn’t push things to clients after being turned down a ton of times. “What’s the point if you’re just going to say no again,” so can very much so go both ways. @Aaronlevy
It’s a mix for us. We tend to suggest quite a bit, and we like to listen. A lot of our clients, across a lot of verticals, really like to ‘test’ the platform they like personally, so convos can get um…robust. @JuliaVyse
@Aaronlevy I think is always good to give them the choice, but I hear you. @CarolinaTorres
@MenachemAni yes! The do exactly what we say but also be proactive crowd is all over the place. @JuliaVyse
I try to make it a part of what I do to make it so that I am the one suggesting places we should test. But clients do sometimes bring up questions about different platform,s and if I think it might be a good place for them to advertise. I have a conversation about this stuff monthly, too, so it’s already built in to what we talk about on a regular basis. @NeptuneMoon
Agreed @CarolinaTorres, but you know how it goes especially if you have the same AM and point of contact for a long time haha @Aaronlevy
We typically bring the suggestions. @revaminkoff
So, you can always just keep a suggestion for a new platform as a line item in your reports too. Month after month @NeptuneMoon
@Aaronlevy too right! There’s lazy thinking, and then there’s a strong understanding of your business. I’m not going to reco something that I don’t believe in for you. @JuliaVyse
@NeptuneMoon There’s one I pitch every year that I seriously think the client should try, but it’s become almost a running joke 6 years in…@revaminkoff
Until they say “listen, CEO hates that platform” then you can stop suggesting it…@NeptuneMoon
@NeptuneMoon that line in the report is your insurance policy, so that they can’t complain about not being proactive….@CarolinaTorres
That is exactly what that is @CarolinaTorres so no one can say “well you never recommend anything to test or try” @NeptuneMoon
99% of the time it is me. They depend on us to suggest platforms for them, so the lean on us. @Ichasse
And sometimes the timing is just bad. Your contact may have lots going on in their personal life or other areas at work and the thought of adding a platform may be overwhelming. Repeating asks isn’t a bad thing. @robert_brady
The networks do not pay us, the clients do, and they dictate the strategy. If there are needs that coincide with a network offerings, we bring it forward. never first into a network beta unless that value is there.I have grown tired at how much networks cost marketers, in time and wasted “enhancements” that serve their own needs. clients are the only ones who pay us, and they are who I serve. It is wild that we have provided so much value to these networks, often doing their jobs for them to spread new features, and how often has the client return been suboptimal? why? Why throw so much money at these networks so they can pretty much create their own economies while our clients see performance dwindle, and marketers do not get any benefit besides squeezing a salary out of those same clients. @Chriskostecki
Mostly it comes from my end, there are some platforms that are underleveraged and not as expensive. But we do see client inputs as well for larger budgets and if it involves OOH, streaming, CTV, Programmatic, etc. @alimehdimukadam
PPCChat Participants
- Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
- Robert Brady @robert_brady
- Julia Vyse @JuliaVyse
- Lawrence Chasse @lchasse
- Reva Minkoff @revaminkoff
- Menachem Ani @MenachemAni
- Aaron Levy @Aaronlevy
- Ali Mehdi Mukadam @alimehdimukadam
- Jyll Saskin Gales @JyllSaskinGales
- Chris Kostecki @Chriskostecki
- Carolina Torres @CarolinaTorres
- Meriem @Meriem
- Amber Deedler @AmberDeedler
- Menachem Ani @MenachemAni
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