PPCChat | Reimagining PPC | 20th February 2024

The topic for this week’s PPCChat session was “Reimagining PPC” where host Julie F Bacchini sought experts’ views on the most impactful changes in PPC, services offered by PPCers recently and the biggest worries or concerns about working in PPC over the next 10 years.

Q1: What do you think the most impactful changes have been in the PPC industry over the past 3 years? How have these changes impacted you and how you go about doing PPC?

Making the platform so easy even my kid can do it with aggressive Google reps and recommendations being shoved down our throats and business being the victims of all this and having “PTSD” from providers. @runnerkik

Automation is a huge one.PPC platforms have always built for e-commerce, but with the rapid rise of automation within those systems, it has skewed even further in that direction. Lead generation PPC keeps getting harder. @NeptuneMoon

Broadening of keyword to search term matches. This has changed my focus from thinking about optimising based on what was searched to optimising for offline conversions. @Pete_Bowen

All the batched ad products taking over for specific products. PMax for everything, YT Shorts only in Performance campaigns, Meta’s never-ending ‘just let the machine do it’ approach. AI innovation could have made our reporting better, our spend more effective, and our channel attribution more transparent. instead…we have this. @JuliaVyse

I genuinely don’t think you can answer this without mentioning the various types of automation – from smart bidding to increased auto-apply recommendations to automated campaign controls. Those things have fundamentally reshaped how much of the day-to-day work of a PPC practitioner operates. There are obviously things around the fringes that will move more mainstream, like shifts in product search to Amazon, the emergence of retail media as viable PPC channels, shifting roles of channels (i.e. there’s more search happening on YouTube, Instagram, etc.), but fundamentally, I think everything comes back to automation + smart bidding playing an outsized role in PPC lever-pulling. The rest just starts to happen downstream of that. @DigitalSamIAm

Also, automation in general. Realising that the future of my career isn’t going to be about pulling levers inside the UI, but rather on optimising for what happens after the click. @Pete_Bowen

The hard push into “the machine knows best.” Obviously, machines can handle things at a pace and level that humans can’t and there’s good and bad with that. However, PPC is pushing so hard into just trusting the machines that the limitations are ignored. It’s quickly leaving small businesses behind. @HarrisonJHepp

And @HarrisonJHepp we don’t fully trust the machines and for good reason – hello “shake the cushions” and its fallout…@NeptuneMoon

I think the biggest thing comes from platforms’ explicit admission that “stuff ain’t that complicated y’all.” I think a lot of us came up in the big-data era and so we apply this kind of granular thinking. Whereas now, there’s an implicit “stuff’s messy, it’s better to think ‘light touch'” — and I think in most situations that’s right, and has actually always been right. @ferkungamaboobo

I personally embrace and look forward to automation. What I don’t like and is the black box around it & relinquishing total control with no visibility. I still want to be the pilot at the controls switching autopilot on. Specific to Google Ads, the decimation of match types and keyword targeting will have a lasting impact on the industry. It is not keyword targeting anymore, it is search term targeting. @alimehdimukadam

For me, I am focused even more now on being at least part of the conversation for the post-click experience. There is less we can control on the pre-click side of the equation. So the differentiation of the future lies a lot on post-click. @NeptuneMoon

Lots of folks have mentioned it so I’ll just +1 it. They’re trying to take away all the controls from the user and make it feel less like you’re sitting in the cockpit of a rocket ship and more like a simple iPad app anyone can use. The issue with that is we need those controls to optimize and enhance performance. @NicolasGarfinkel

I remember so many times where we’ve said the sky’s falling over these kinds of “over” simplifications – I literally wrote an article about how enhanced campaigns is actually better and was told many times that I was a Google shill. @ferkungamaboobo

@NeptuneMoon I agree, the post-click side of things is becoming increasingly important. Something PPCers are going to have to lean into. @HarrisonJHepp

I think @ferkungamaboobo is spot on here – there’s been a perpetual illusion of granular accuracy in paid media that’s slowly dissipating. That’s objectively a good thing.3PA was always a farce. The idea that human decision-making could be boiled down by a random-ass pixel was always kinda a joke that went profitable before everyone could laugh. @DigitalSamIAm

@ferkungamaboobo if there’s anything you’re not, it’s a shill! but we are living through a time when all of our professional instincts are being seen as legacy, in favour of ‘just letting Google do it’s thing’ not a great place to be, particularly given the incentives of Google. @JuliaVyse

@ferkungamaboobo I’m not sure I agree and would love to learn more about your thinking. Could share some insights into what those situations are. @NicolasGarfinkel

The really really obvious answer is the amount of data and ability to actually make changes without using automation keeps getting smaller and smaller. If you want to be in control of the campaign you are spending money on you are almost punished for that and even then you are not given even half of the data that campaign collects. @MichealGumbert

I don’t think it’s quite as binary. But finance went through this same thing ~15 years ago, where many old-school traders were bemoaning the use of automated algorithms, claiming that it was bad for the industry, etc.Fast forward, and those people are all either dead, broke or converts. @DigitalSamIAm

Google introduced a fundamental, tectonic shift in the way its ad products function. They are moving from demand capture to demand generation. From a slightly pessimistic POV, they recognized that their “TOF” inventory has been under-utilized for too long, they had to find a way to better monetize it (Display, Gmail, YouTube, and more recently, Discover placements). From a rosier POV, they found a way to transform their Everest-sized mountain of search intent data into an “engine” that reaches consumers at many touchpoints, not just the last, expressed form of that (search). My outlook is…leaning in. There is no point is swimming upstream any longer. We advertisers have no choice but to operate fully within the ecosystem now available. PMax is the future, like it or not, and when set up diligently, this campaign type works well enough. @teabeeshell

AH yeah, I don’t mean “just let Google do its thing” – I mean more… I think about doing wild stuff like bid modifiers for weather in areas on inelastic goods, dynamic zip-code bid targeting, wild automation funnels that led to hyper-segmentation. @ferkungamaboobo

@DigitalSamIAm I was just thinking on this same thing earlier today. The finance world has moved almost entirely to algorithms trading and you either figured out how to survive in that world or you didn’t. PPC is going to see the same. @HarrisonJHepp

When 4 accounts was normal 8 tops at agencies to agencies giving PPC strategists 30 to 40 accounts is another big one. @runnerkik

Oh, I had about 10 on Google with maybe 5 on Facebook plus experimental budgets when I started in the industry. @ferkungamaboobo

Thanks Doug! Yeah, I actually worked on an algorithm that adjusted bids for an account with a 9 figure budget.  We found certain weather patterns that showed higher revenue/click from users. It has hilariously nuanced I agree with that! @NicolasGarfinkel

What about when the % of spend was 25 percent standard now I see agencies going as low as 5 or 6% because Google is easier etc. @runnerkik

Created an almost unfair advantage because of our budget. @NicolasGarfinkel

@runnerkik are you seeing pushback on prices for new clients? @Pete_Bowen

The funny thing @runnerkik is that, while some of the basics are easier, IMO it is MORE difficult today to maintain a high-performing account. The bar for being brilliant at the basics is higher. @DigitalSamIAm

But sure, there are still scumbag dipshit I’d-love-nothing-more-than-to-destroy-them agencies that want to charge 5% of spend. My default reply when clients ask me about those types of agencies is: that’s the most expensive 5% you’ll ever pay. @DigitalSamIAm

I mean, tbh there’s a level where 5% makes sense. @ferkungamaboobo

@Pete_Bowen Yes, I am 100% seeing it and they are asking for an expert for $500 a month or less than complaining…and @DigitalSamIAm I am so against it too. @runnerkik

Everyone wants a bargain right now, at least from what I’m seeing…And a lot more of “I’d be doing this myself if I had the time” people. @NeptuneMoon

@runnerkik sometimes you need to let the toddler touch the stove. @DigitalSamIAm

Yeah, I’m choosing violence today. @DigitalSamIAm

@DigitalSamIAm Me too. @runnerkik

The only issue I see for those lower 5% fees is that it’s not a lot of work until it is 3PC deprecation alongside consent mode opt-in is going to be MASSIVE changes that I don’t think people realize. It’s going to create a lot of work for us a PPC Professionals. @NicolasGarfinkel

@ferkungamaboobo I disagree because of the support needed there I wholeheartedly disagree. @runnerkik

The inclusion of PMAX created a ton of churn for people. @NicolasGarfinkel

There is a graduated pricing model that grounds the cost to client in the cost to product the work (plus margin). This is and age-old model that most everyone can accept. As effort/work scales, so too does the cost of services. Tying pricing to spend is never going to “work” long-term for clients. There has to be a front-end capture of value for the agency and an eventual cap for clients on the other side. @teabeeshell

AI has been a huge change -and the fact that the answers from both the rep and the platform have turned into mostly “Trust the AI” – which is really hard to explain to clients/troubleshoot/etc. @revaminkoff

Q2: What are the services that you currently sell the most often and/or most easily? Has this changed or shifted over the last 3 years?

Audits and account reviews are always easier sells when people are uncertain about economy. But ongoing work has been my bread and butter forever. I agree with @runnerkik from question one that people are a bit delusional on what management should cost right now. @NeptuneMoon

At the moment I’m selling ad-hoc consulting to new clients most often and easiest. I’m doing this because I’m trying to get out of day-to-day managing accounts and exploring new ideas/opportunities for adding value. @Pete_Bowen

@Pete_Bowen I am leaning into the consulting/guidance/ideas piece myself! @NeptuneMoon

I’ve only been back into the PPC world in the last year. Took a bit of a hiatus so I can’t speak to what worked years ago and not now. But I’ve really been fixated on a retainer-based model so I can invest the time to learn the business. I typically do a large sign-on fee alongside a monthly retainer and that helps ensure I get the right customers who intend to stick around for the long haul. @NicolasGarfinkel

So I don’t see much ads work, to be honest. The clients I have that run ads don’t have the budget to have someone even mind the store (which, imo means “don’t run the ads,” but we’ve trained everyone to think digital ads are a good call) @ferkungamaboobo

@NeptuneMoon It’s been really rewarding and it’s exposed me to a range of clients I wouldn’t have access to  / be able to service otherwise. @Pete_Bowen

I most often work as staff aug, freelancing for other amazing agencies.  I love that and I am also training other agencies BUT you have to find an agency that puts training at the forefront.  Interestingly the agencies that invest in training and my consulting have the cleanest accounts and are going great things. @runnerkik

A newer angle for me is, guidance/consulting. I don’t HAVE to be hands-on-keyboard for certain clients. If they have the time and willingness to learn, my role can retract into periodic advice-giving and experience-lending. They perform the daily/weekly work, and I help steer the ship. @teabeeshell

Travis – I think that’s the future as Google continues to make it less about being hands on and more strategically about getting the input data right and understanding the strategic value of the channel. @NicolasGarfinkel

That said, I don’t look forward to that time. Not enough conversion data in smaller accounts (<$20k / mo) in the B2B space at least @NicolasGarfinkel

My bread and butter is managing accounts fully and that’s probably the most interest I see still at the moment. However, I’d like to expand into more offerings that are a little more hands-off. I think full management is going to change a lot with automation and people with expertise will find more opportunity in audits/coaching/consulting, etc. @HarrisonJHepp

I do what @teabeeshell does too, I will simply get on the phone and validate/consult to clients and they execute. @runnerkik

White-label has been a huge portion of revenues for us in the last 3 years. Thinking of trying audits as a productized service. Ongoing management & consultation remains bread and butter. @alimehdimukadam

Pretty much all businesses are lured by the idea of a “PPC easy button” and all the automation and aggressiveness of Google reps puts that idea in their head. Meanwhile, we are over here thinking “there is no easy button.” @NeptuneMoon

@HarrisonJHepp I find straight up connecting directly with brand who want me to fully manage harder BUT that could also be my network at the moment. @runnerkik

I’m thinking of developing (warning heresy coming up) an auto-pilot offering for smaller businesses that can’t justify monthly retainers. I’ll be experimenting with this model 2nd quarter. @Pete_Bowen

@NicolasGarfinkel those small budget accounts are getting so hard especially in B2B. I have a few and it’s a constant experiment.@HarrisonJHepp

@runnerkik I think because that’s what I’ve been doing my referrals are coming in that way. Plus I have a couple agencies I work with that outsource their full management to me and they are bringing in clients who want to have their marketing handled. @HarrisonJHepp

@Pete_Bowen I was thinking the same thing -I just don’t see how that can be done well with the margins. @runnerkik

Accounts under the 50 conversions in 30-day level are SO MUCH HARDER to work within the last 2 years. @NeptuneMoon

Happy to share my thinking on auto-pilot campaigns and how to make them profitable sometime outside this thread. @Pete_Bowen

@NeptuneMoon they are so hard right now! But I also talk to brands at that side all the time. There are so many that want help! @HarrisonJHepp

@HarrisonJHepp Those accounts have historically been my jam too. @NeptuneMoon

@Pete_Bowen I’ve been rolling a similar idea around in my head because I’ve worked with a lot of small clients like this. Would be curious to chat with you more on that sometime! @HarrisonJHepp

Still, Google PPC, which has gotten easier to sell as Google has gotten more complicated. We’ve seen less app install campaigns and paid Meta over the last few years, but that might just be the nature of our clients vs an overall trend. @revaminkoff

@NeptuneMoon ugh, yes, and they need solutions, but Google isn’t giving them anything. @HarrisonJHepp

At some point, a conversion threshold HAS to be the early-stage hurdle for brands. I don’t see that as a newer hindrance, just a published requirement (Meta and Google), less of a real shift. There are so many things a brand can do to ease conversion friction before spending money into ads platforms. The emerging reality may be, if you can’t leap this hurdle from Day 1 of spend, you may not yet be ready to spend on ads. That comes with a minimum spend requirement, sure, but the days of spending “X small amout” to “test and learn” have long been gone. @teabeeshell

My offerings haven’t changed much, because I’m in a giant machine. it’s all about omni strategy and budget management towards goals, rather than what some clients see as button tapping. But I’m about to have a lot of competition who can claim to do it all (pmax). I think we’ll see more divides between digital and traditional, away from teams like mine who manage it all. @JuliaVyse

We’ve had to deal with more GA4 implementation issues, because it’s so complicated and a lot of people are having tracking issues because of it. That’s the biggest change. @revaminkoff

Google and Meta Ads audits and ongoing paid media management. I also sell a lot of SEO and CRO audits, although I have other senior consultants that I partner with to do that work. @Austin_Dillman

@HarrisonJHepp /@NeptuneMoon One trick I’ve found is to couple manual CPC with Automated Bidding for B2B accounts for smaller budgets. My theory is 2 fold:

• Auto Bidding Models to a lot of bidding discovery to avoid over-optimizing and cutting off large profitable chunks of the market. Manual CPC can do that a lot cheaper.
• Google uses secondary conversion signals to help inform their auto-bidding decisions (as they should!)

As a result, getting a higher volume of low “primary goal conversion” clicks from manual CPC that drive more upper funnel conversions helps the automated bidding model performance dramatically.@NicolasGarfinkel

The services we offer currently are done for you.  We manage the account and also create the ads.  We charge based on spend.  Besides writing the ads we also created an AI tool that we can feed in ads that are working to help us with the speed of getting new ads in to see what works. @BrianFalzon

@NicolasGarfinkel what do you mean coupling them? Like some campaigns are manual and others are auto? And are you adding in more secondary goals to help give Google data?  @HarrisonJHepp

Coupling: Clone your automated bidding model ads, and have them run manual CPC and just set the bids about 35% lower than your average CPC of automated bid CPCs.Secondary Goals: Exactly. Give Google the funnel data they need. You might only have 10 Qualified Leads a month but maybe 25 users filled out a form. and 100 of them visited the contact page. That’s all valuable data from a machine-learning perspective. @NicolasGarfinkel

Oh, interesting thought on the coupling. Reminds me of some older shopping strategies that used to work. Good thoughts on the secondary goals as well. Thanks! @HarrisonJHepp

Q3: Are there services that you are gearing up toward offering or have begun offering more recently?What prompted you to move in that direction? And how has the client reception been to them?

This might be unique to Canada due to our local news fight up here, but I’m offering a lot more social platforms that aren’t Meta. Google is also being VERY unpleasant in ways I can’t discuss here, but we’re definitely prioritizing local media. @JuliaVyse

I have the vantage point of working across SEM and SEO. I position SEO as an investment because I truly believe in that. You’re planting a fruit-bearing apple tree that matures in time (6+ months), not buying an apple today (paid ads). That allows me to flip the script. Focus on the health of your website, organically, before you spend money accelerating traffic. @teabeeshell

I’m doing a lot more audits, training + consulting support than I have in the past. It’s actually kinda nice. @DigitalSamIAm

I could probably boil it down to focusing in on competitiveness for clients. In years past you could get away with a lot of things being kind of meh and still have growth and solid sales or lead numbers. That just is not the case any longer. And it is amazing to me (though it shouldn’t be after all these years) at how many businesses are just ignorant and/or stubborn on their positioning in the market, their web experience, etc. They will need massive help in these areas going forward, so I am looking there. @NeptuneMoon

I’ve extracted some internal tech into a SAAS – www.ghostblocker.com which launched a few weeks ago. I’ve been pleased with the initial uptake. @Pete_Bowen

Definitely the agency training. Most agencies wouldn’t be able to afford my salary but they can absolutely buy training packages and I can be the expert outside eyes. @runnerkik

The biggest thing I’ve been doing lately that’s new is trawling boards and doing cold pitches.@ferkungamaboobo

It’s not particularly effective or in line with anything, but it keeps the lights on. @ferkungamaboobo

I’ve been trying to work on services for low volume/small business accounts specifically around businesses that are just local mom and pops. They can’t afford traditional services but get lost trying to go it alone. I talk to them a lot, but they can’t afford good help and end up with bad experiences hiring cheap options. Hoping to have a service for them at some point this year. @HarrisonJHepp

@ferkungamaboobo Wow, I had zero luck there but 100% don’t hate the player hate the game I did tons of Upwork when I started. @runnerkik

@ferkungamaboobo Oh I got cussed out on there and “interviewed” to see if I know PPC lmao. @runnerkik

Audits + Consultation requests have increased from brands that have an in-house team or just need another set of eyes if they are not digital savvy and are working with another agency. @alimehdimukadam

Upwork is the cheapest PPC work I’ve ever done when I first started trying to do some side work, ha. @HarrisonJHepp

I am also leaning hard into being a mom and making TikTok and IG posts because when leads come to be they are super warm. @runnerkik

I think sometimes fighting the “bro agency” is the best approach. I am also getting bolder when I first started I never bragged about being an expert now I shout it from the mountains because I see accounts from others and want to cry.  I like @DigitalSamIAm quote from earlier about the hot stove.@runnerkik

I’ve started productizing more of my offerings along with the offerings of freelance colleagues – particularly audits across different disciplines like paid media, organic, and SEO. I’d like to step away from a lot of the day-to-day media management and focus more on audits and strategy. That’s the focus for 2024. @Austin_Dillman

What’s interesting about “expertise” is that I hear all the time that my 15 years of experience is too much, that I don’t know what I’m talking about because I’m not up on things, that I don’t use LLMs etc, or that I can’t possibly know the things I do because I’m “just a [insert thing i was introduced as]” — as if any of this is hard. @ferkungamaboobo

Q4: What are your biggest worries or concerns about working in PPC over the next 10 years? And what, if anything, can you do about them?

That the platforms will continue to take more and more decision-making away from the people to manage the campaigns in their effort to make it more profitable for them. @MichealGumbert

I think it will be fully automated in 10 years with very little specific input from advertisers. (it is not even going to take 10 years to get to this point)That’s why it is smart to develop skills and services that are outside what happens in the platforms!  @NeptuneMoon

Am I being stupid in saying that I have no concerns. Stuff changes, we complain, we adapt. Repeat. @Pete_Bowen

Oh man, how much is this answer for the group and how much is for my therapist? The agreement between art/entertainment and commerce is completely out of whack. Everything is sponsored, everything is a shop, everything is “reach” resulting in terrible content, a terrible experience, and rising costs with little reward for advertisers. Part of me thinks we’ll adapt, and part of me thinks we’re in a race to the bottom. @JuliaVyse

There will be nothing left in my soul LMAO @runnerkik

@Pete_Bowen For sure if you don’t like constant change, this is not the career path for you. You’d better like having to figure out things all over again fairly often! @NeptuneMoon

I’m going to agree with @Pete_Bowen on this one. It’s going to change and we’re going to get less control. That trend likely isn’t changing anytime soon. We’ll just have to adapt or if we can’t handle it anymore buy a farm! I think about option 2 frequently, ha. @HarrisonJHepp

I’m not sure that I like constant change, probably just numb to it. @Pete_Bowen

This aligns more with the answer I was going to give in Q3: that tech companies have found a golden goose with LLMs and are going to offer so many low-quality offerings to companies that fulfill KPIs but not anything real. I’ve already talked to so many companies that are still in the “content marketing” loop. @ferkungamaboobo

Obviously, dead internet theory is a meme, but it’s not entirely wrong when it comes to content marketing and imo it is more true than not throughout the past 10+ years @ferkungamaboobo

I think a lot of PPCers are going to have to learn to be marketers in short order….or will find themselves out of jobs. @DigitalSamIAm

In 10 years, what we do will it still be called PPC? How to show ads on Smart Glasses & Vision Pro’s when people are walking on the street, pop-ups for local businesses – like sponsored real-time Google Map Ads.3. There was a report that said SEO might decline by 25% due to GenAI queries by 2025/26. That means even paid queries might. Excited with caution. @alimehdimukadam

Evolve or die gets real. @DigitalSamIAm

How the LLMs impact everything will be interesting too and truly yet to be seen. @NeptuneMoon

There is a fundamental difference between technology and preferences changing and a couple of companies with pretty close to complete control of the PPC ecosystem making changes to benefit them at the expense of everyone else. @MichealGumbert

Oh I also think PPCers need to get better at retail media. @DigitalSamIAm

I hope to be retired in 10 years, but my biggest concern, like many here, is ad platforms turning to automation. I miss all of the manual controls we used to have. I expect it to only get worse with time.Not sure there’s anything we can do as marketers. I doubt clients will boycott the ad platforms and pull their budgets unless there’s a lack of profitability. @Austin_Dillman

@DigitalSamIAm Good news for those of us who started in marketing before the internet existed.@NeptuneMoon

@DigitalSamIAm so what your saying is my career is going to come full circle and I’ll need to lean on my traditional media and project management experience from my first couple years in marketing? haha @HarrisonJHepp

Marketing, Ops, Finance & CRM need to become friends. @DigitalSamIAm

Definitely dreading the day where everything is automated — even the ad copy – and there’s no advertiser control on anything. @revaminkoff

10 years is a really long time. Here’s a shot from the rafters.Google won’t look like Google in 10 years. SGE is the first step towards that. As a result, text links don’t make a lot of sense when the users question will be answered without a need to click anything.I think we’re looking at something like a “angies” list model where you just pay per lead and the user doesn’t even visit your website.(And I think that makes for a sad future) @NicolasGarfinkel

@DigitalSamIAm I keep having the “Google Ads needs to be part of a system” chat with my clients. @Pete_Bowen

My core concern is how people perceive advances in AI. It will never be “perfect” (always learning), and that’s the point. And yet, people have begun to perceive it as a panacea. If we fast-forward to a future where Google Ads is as simple as linking your website to the ads platform and clicking “GO”, your website better be world-class. If it’s not, you’re training the system with poor inputs. This can become a brand’s fatal flaw. The fundamental shift will be focusing on quality inputs:

• Clean, growing audiences
• Quality, differentiated creative, whether that’s AI-built or not
• Adapting post-click experiences to minimize friction
• Evolving offers in reaction to consumer experiences with core products/services

I don’t care if automation takes over. (Sort of.) I care that people perceive it as a future without effort. @teabeeshell

Oh I 100% believe that paid search becomes more important as SGE and LLMs become more widespread. @DigitalSamIAm

@DigitalSamIAm  – Also the fundamental build of a site and its structure data. Paid search can’t become a band-aid over a bullet wound. I think poor, shallow site construction will get exposed…very soon. @teabeeshell

How much SGE and all the VR stuff really catches on for the general population is a massive variable too. @NeptuneMoon

My obsession with control is what you’re talking about @teabeeshell Google is not going to be held responsible for poor experiences, brands are even when they have no control over the experience. @MichealGumbert

There’s no world where Google willingly destroys its $200B/yr ad business. @DigitalSamIAm

A big thing for me is also brand safety. How do I tell a client to be on a network that allows hate groups to run ads? @ferkungamaboobo

And that’s only going to get worse. @ferkungamaboobo

@DigitalSamIAm sure there is …if they think they can create a $400 billion business. @MichealGumbert

@DigitalSamIAm there is a world where TikTok and Amazon destroy it. @JuliaVyse

TikTok is getting exposed — platform is just not that good from an advertiser standpoint. @DigitalSamIAm

Like, all off the major ad networks allow literal hate groups to run ads, all of the lesser ones fund hate groups via their ads.txt. @ferkungamaboobo

and their search results suck. amazon however…@JuliaVyse

Apple could enter search in the next 10 years too – which would SHAKE THINGS UP to say the least. @NeptuneMoon

I have zero confidence in Apple’s ability to execute, and their shareholder’s tolerance for it. @DigitalSamIAm

@DigitalSamIAm your confidence level is correct. speaking from experience. @JuliaVyse

When LLMs are small enough to run on an iPhone why do you need a search engine? @NicolasGarfinkel

And fast enough I should say. check out Groq.com. It’s lightning fast. @NicolasGarfinkel

Interesting. I think Apple is capped with their current offerings. And I am not convinced that VR headsets will be the same juggernaut that iPhones were. So with their ecosystem and stranglehold on apps on their devices, they are perfectly positioned to do it if they so choose. @NeptuneMoon

I still think all this LLM/SGE stuff ignores a huge variable around adoption. My friends and family that aren’t exposed to the tech world don’t talk about AI, don’t want to use AI, rarely even think about it. It’s the darling for people in the tech world, but will the whole population willing use it at the level people think. @HarrisonJHepp

@NicolasGarfinkel Because, being fast or on a mobile device still does not make it quality. @MichealGumbert

Apple does have an opportunity, but they are a tech company. they SUCK at media, and the backend of their system is…no comment. @JuliaVyse

Oh idk, my students use LLMs all the time. @ferkungamaboobo

@NeptuneMoon many people said the same thing about iPads… I think Apple’s future remains in hardware and ecosystems, less in software. Search would be a distraction in that category, like Apple Maps. @teabeeshell

Agree @MichealGumbert – but that tech is only getting better. @NicolasGarfinkel

I don’t think most people understand the staggering level of complexity involved in building + querying an index, esp. one that is exponentially increasing in size. @DigitalSamIAm

Someone at Apple has read the Innovator’s Dilemma and is currently hacking on an ad system. @Pete_Bowen

Speaking of adaption …how many years in a row has it been the year that voice search is going to overtake all other search? @MichealGumbert

All I’m saying is that if Apple ever gets serious about it, they could easily poach top talent. @NeptuneMoon

@HarrisonJHepp Correct. For context – Yahoo.com still gets 2 billion more visits than ChatGPT. @alimehdimukadam

@ferkungamaboobo I think that’s where the adoption comes in. The younger generation will grow up with it and use it, but then your talking 10-20 years before it’s rally mainstream.@HarrisonJHepp

Being forced to use something or it being easy in a specific use-case does not equal widespread use. @MichealGumbert

But here’s the thing: does LLM/SGE actually harm paid search, especially in a world where Google wins (and IMO, we’re a lot closer to a Google blowout win in AI than we are of a Chat GPT win) @DigitalSamIAm

I agree @DigitalSamIAm Google will put ads all over their SGE – no question. @NeptuneMoon

I think it gets a lot more insidious than just slapping ads on it. @DigitalSamIAm

This year’s Google Marketing Live event in May should be pretty interesting on the SGE front. @NeptuneMoon

My main thought on SGE is that it’s literally knowledge boxes with a cute name. @ferkungamaboobo

@DigitalSamIAm Correct, Gemini is powerful. @alimehdimukadam

I don’t mean that pejoratively. Just that the tech has been there for a LONG time it’s just maybe a different method to produce the same product. @ferkungamaboobo

I also think there’s a massive fortune to be made in re-bundling search. And Google is uniquely well positioned to do it @DigitalSamIAm

@DigitalSamIAm do you mean allowing sponsored content to somehow be used more and that type of thing? More sneaky ads? Sponsored SGE content? @NeptuneMoon

Next step: buy Criteo once they kill cookies and Criteo becomes a penny stock. @DigitalSamIAm

Yup. All of the above. @DigitalSamIAm

I mean, you can kill cookies, you can still fingerprint. @ferkungamaboobo

I mean the possibilities are endless really. @NeptuneMoon

TradeDesk or Stack Adapt will end up buying Criteo. @MichealGumbert

We’ll see — TradeDesk’s access to capital isn’t what it once was. @DigitalSamIAm

Like, idk, cookies are not important to ad targeting really. @ferkungamaboobo

Also, all of us are assuming that Google will survive all of the legal challenges it is facing as fundamentally the same company that it is right now …that seems like a pretty big assumption. @MichealGumbert

The US is the only market that matters, and Google will be just fine in the US. @DigitalSamIAm

Are you 100% certain and willing to bet your future business on that? @MichealGumbert

Yup. Without question. @DigitalSamIAm

Standard Oil was broken up, but its remaining companies still dominate the oil industry. Even if Google is broken up it will still be the dominate force. @HarrisonJHepp

The US Supreme Court will remain conservative for 25+ years. @DigitalSamIAm

I’m guessing the US market is big enough to support a lot of us. @Pete_Bowen

But they are not going to break up big tech. There is too much money there. @DigitalSamIAm

What makes you think the Supreme Court being right of center is good for Google? @MichealGumbert

B/C I can read who funds the Federalist Society, and you can cross-reference that with their holdings @DigitalSamIAm

Going after big tech companies seems to be the only thing that anyone in DC can agree on anymore. @MichealGumbert

Going after big tech is the only thing the far left and far right agree on. But there’s very little money on the fringes. @DigitalSamIAm

I mean if Texas and California can agree on that …that says a lot. @MichealGumbert

There has not been much appetite by regulators or courts to do anything about antitrust since the 1980s. More cases are being brought, but it remains to be seen what the outcome will be. Legislature is more interested in posturing than governing here in the US right now…@NeptuneMoon

That is what I am saying …we are all making assumptions. @MichealGumbert

You have to start with reasonable assumptions, or else you end up nowhere. @DigitalSamIAm

“Nothing will change” exactly like “everything will change” just do not feel reasonable to me. @MichealGumbert

We are definitely making assumptions. For me at least they are based on what we know now. And will adapt as variables change. So you know, the life of a PPCer. @NeptuneMoon

PPCChat Participants

• Sarah Steman @runnerkik
• Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
• Peter Bowen @Pete_Bowen
• Julia Vyse  @JuliaVyse
• Sam . @DigitalSamIAm
• Harrison Jack Hepp @HarrisonJHepp
• Doug R Thomas, Esq. @ferkungamaboobo
• Ali Mehdi Mukadam @alimehdimukadam
• Nicolas Garfinkel  @NicolasGarfinkel
• Reva Minkoff @revaminkoff

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