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In the lives of PPCers, they all go through phases when they don’t love their jobs and this week’s PPCChat session was based on the same. Host Julie F Bacchini shed light on the time when they felt a lack of enjoyment in their PPC work, Is there a particular part of PPC that tends to make them feel more burnt out and more.

Q1: How long have you been working in PPC? And are you in-house, agency or freelancer/consultant?

17 years, one-man consultant at the moment but have owned an agency in the past. @Pete_Bowen

16-18 years, depending on how to categorize SEO writing. All agency, all the time! Occasional consulting, but not much. @JuliaVyse

Since 2012 – 12 years now. Consultant/Agency. @alimehdimukadam

I have been in marketing since before the internet, and in PPC since it began, so 20 ish years. Been a consultant that whole time. @NeptuneMoon

18 years now. Have an agency the last 7 years. Also worked in-house at brand, NGOs and even vendor side. Kinda done it all at this point. @duanebrown

I am pretty fresh at 2 years and working at an agency the whole time. @AliRussell

14 years, mostly agency, now freelance, everything from big-picture to specific implementations. @ferkungamaboobo

I started with Google Ads not long after Google started having ads. So since 2002. (It’s almost to the point where I can say to the Google support reps: I’ve been using Google Ads for longer than you’ve been alive LOL) @EronCohen

I’ve been working in Google Ads for 8 years now, always at an agency! @AmyLytle

Love that we have so many different levels and types of experience here in the chat today! @NeptuneMoon

I have been in the PPC industry for a little over 6 years. I have worked from small to large agencies and with big brands. Since the beginning of Covid, I started more seriously with freelancing and now I want to turn it into something more, like a Micro-Agency or Consultancy. I still love working on the account, so I can’t see myself outsourcing the work to others. @slobodanjelisavac

10 years at an agency, all facets of digital, heavy focus on paid search. 3 years in-house as head of marketing, but I roll the sleeves up for demand generation. @BryceLiggins

10 years, starting within agencies, now a solo venture. @teabeeshell

I’ve been working in the PPC field for the past 6 years. I currently work in-house, for the last 3 years. @DianaAlinaAldea

10 years in PPC now, was agency-side until June 2023, freelancing along the way over the last 5-6 years as well. @kytaylor88

5.5 years on the agency side. @ChristineZirnheld

Since 2008. I am currently working with a tech company – i have worked in-house, agency and freelanced as well. @TheMarketingAnu

Started working in marketing in 2005. Got into PPC in 2009. In-house up until early 2019 and full time freelancer ever since then. @Austin_Dillman

Been doing Google Ads for 20+ years!I started in-house eCommerce in 2003. Started freelancing in 2008/2009 and ultimately morphed into a micro-agency. @MenachemAni

22 years – since 2002!  @beyondthepaid

Started in 2006. Done the in-house thing, owned an agency, worked for a couple agencies, now more of a one-man band. @robert_brady

Many years general marketing, 10 years PPC, currently in-house, have previously worked at an agency and freelanced. @lindsaycasey

Q2: Have you ever felt burned out or had a period where you just were not enjoying PPC for a while?Did anything in particular lead up to the burnout or lack of enjoyment feelings?

Absolutely! I have felt burnt out, out of my depth, like I’ve ‘lost my touch’ and other times I’ve felt invigorated and ready for something new. It happens and it’s not a nice feeling, but very normal. @JuliaVyse

Yes! Mostly because of the specific agency I was working in, but after my mentor there passed away, being the only person at my company that knew anything about running ads was really isolating and I was second-guessing whether I was doing anything right. @AmyLytle

I have, several times over the years. The first time was when Google suspended every account under our MCC because one of my clients added something called “Google Money Tree” to their website. It took 3 months for them to resolve the situation. @Pete_Bowen

I have felt both, for sure! Burnout when I was just working too much and had poor work/life boundaries. An overbearing client can kick you over into burnout too! Definitely had period where I was not enjoying the work over the years too. @NeptuneMoon

Post-living in Australia in 2012 felt like a time I was a little lost and unsure what do to. More recently, during the pandemic, I was working so much that I don’t even know if I was burned out or not. I did just sleep a lot and try to get more morning yoga time. @duanebrown

I’ll say as well, I def had burnout feelings during lockdowns. The last few years have been rough, and on good days I felt like I was helping. on bad days I felt like I was just cluttering up the internet with ads. @JuliaVyse

Real burnout in the agency world in 2020. My role shifted to convincing clients to not cancel contracts and turn off spend. Tough time for sure! @BryceLiggins

Have definitely felt burnout in client-facing roles. When I was at a former company, many people were at >120% capacity but leadership was resistant to hiring my people to balance the workload. And taking time off meant I had to work longer hours the week before and week after my time off. @kytaylor88

I’ve felt it more recently too because sometimes it feels like an endless struggle against Google and with clients self-sabotaging. @Pete_Bowen

For me, great clients help to avoid burnout. It’s when clients create demands out of scope, under-appreciate work, or fail to (try to) see eye-to-eye that I find motivation suffers.It’s rarely the work itself that contributes in my experience. There are endless mini “problems” to solve in-platform that keep things fun and interesting. Even platform changes create an opportunity to critically think and adapt strategies. @teabeeshell

So this might not be the scope of the question, but the thing that made me “burn out” was always a management thing rather than a doing-the-work thing. Agency sales goals driving client strategy, sending good traffic to bad creative, it’s-always-been-done-that-ways, not getting compensated…. all sorts of causes, none of which have to do with the work-work. @ferkungamaboobo

@AmyLytle That’s a good callout. Having advocates, both in-company and client-side can be vital to mental health at work, @teabeeshell

The pace of change in the last few years, coupled with covid and everything since that began has made it easier to feel burnt out or isolated or just plain tired. It’s not just you. @NeptuneMoon

Yes, this was especially after I worked for a large client that was spending $300-$400k a month with unique set of challenges. After their contract ended and they went in-house, for a while working on smaller clients with a $3-5k budget and having weekly meetings etc, felt extremely disengaging. Enjoyed the boom, was working 14-15 hours across different time zones but ultimately got burned out & health suffered. Took a short break to reset.  This was mid 2022. @alimehdimukadam

@ferkungamaboobo It sounds like those are all things you can’t control which I understand is a common reason for mental health issues like stress, depression and burnout. @Pete_Bowen

Yeah. I find myself advocating for my team a lot, and that sometimes doesn’t leave room for me. Very appreciative that I work for a company with lots of support. @JuliaVyse

I definitely felt it – but while I was working in various agencies for others. As soon as I changed the surrounding area, switched to full remote near my family, it doesn’t bother me at all. Probably, a person has to find what he likes the most and what he likes the most, and if he can adapt the work he does to that, such pressure is not felt. I speak from my personal experience. @slobodanjelisavac

When I was just starting out I had some clients that were borderline scams—taking advantage of people. Those cause burnout quick. It feels better to get to tell those opportunities “no” these days.@BryceLiggins

My happiness is 100% dependent on who my clients are at the time and how much I’m enjoying collaborating with my team. If my client has the right goals, money to spend, and proper tracking in place I am usually happy. @ChristineZirnheld

I for sure have experienced burnout and felt a lack of enjoyment from PPC. I find myself asking “what’s the point” both when I’m overwhelmed with work and when I don’t have enough work to do. It can be hard for me to land in that sweet spot as agency work is so up and down at times. It can be a rollercoaster of emotions. @alexnicoll93

When I worked in a client services role doing consulting work, our sales team was very hit-or-miss. Bad clients paying little money but being constant thorns in my side. @teabeeshell you mentioned it, good clients can make heavier workloads easier to manage. @kytaylor88

I have low moments when I feel under appreciated, when a lot is asked, and a lot is offered from my side, full capacity and over time, but it is never enough. @DianaAlinaAldea

I feel though… idk… “bad clients” are largely more institutional failures than a client being “bad.” @ferkungamaboobo

We have a smaller team at work and have tried to add more employees but doesn’t always work. We continue to get more and more accounts and responsibilities but not added benefit to us. Additionally, feels like our team often gets overlooked in the agency. SEO is always going to be king but appreciation for the SEM team goes a long way, perhaps because its so rare. @AliRussell

@kytaylor88 what’s that old saying? the 4k clients want weekly checkins and monthly in-depth reporting, the 1M clients want to know what’s up quarterly over lunch. @JuliaVyse

I find it’s a lot about appreciation and being reasonable. Like I can’t force your budget to change, but I can work hard with what you’ve got and be realistic with goals. As long as you see the work we’re doing and appreciate us, we’re pretty good. @JuliaVyse

@JuliaVyse Give me the 1M clients all day! @BryceLiggins

I think too, a $4K client is spending a lot more percentage of revenue than a $1MM client. So yeah, it’s less important to the agency, but more important to the client. Same with websites – if you shrug at $10K for a website, that’s because it’s not your whole marketing budget for a quarter. @ferkungamaboobo

@ferkungamaboobo I define “bad clients” in a few concrete ways:

  • POCs who are not empowered to think/decide autonomous from higher-ups (creates slowdowns constantly)
  • Businesses who do not have a handle on their business math and therefore an appropriate CAC (headaches for savvy advertisers)
  • Clients who do not respect scope, recognize creep, or appreciate when it’s called out (arguments abound)
  • Objectively poor personalities in the mix (duh)

Most/all of these are solved with better client-side management, but perhaps that’s what you’re saying?@teabeeshell

@ferkungamaboobo exactly right! and build that into your expectations. This type of client will be inquisitive (maybe annoying) they may need to report these numbers across a lot of teams – they’ll need explanations and education. it can be built into the scope, and appreciation on their part goes a long way. @JuliaVyse

Yeah, those are all sales issues IMO. Specifically, scope is a big issue with retainer-style contracts and an agency being too hungry. @ferkungamaboobo

Definitely – mostly when in my agency role, we’re pitching for a client, and then we win the client but don’t have enough resources to actually work on the client account. @TheMarketingAnu

Also when things start going wrong and the client demands weekly meetings and the seniors are in firefighting, give the client whatever they want mode! @TheMarketingAnu

Yes – when I’m overworked with no end in sight. I love PPC but not when I don’t have time to do it right. @beyondthepaid

I’ve definitely struggled with burnout. There’s a number of factors over the years, but more recently I’ve felt very isolated in my role and haven’t been able to grow myself or client accounts the way I’d like to. Client demands in particular have been getting to me, and constantly dealing with contradictions in their requests. For example: saying that they have a lot of room to grow on paid media channels, want to test new things, and have lofty goals to outperform 2023, but then cutting their ad spend budgets for 2024. I’m all about efficiency and trying to make it work, but sometimes there’s only so much you can do and it can be exhausting. @adclarke10

I def get overwhelmed from time to time, but I love what I do! @MenachemAni

I view getting burned out like exercise. If you push too hard, then you aren’t gaining, you’re actually regressing. And finding that balance means sometimes you overdo it. Happens to me frequently and I have to recalibrate. @robert_brady

Sometimes when a client isn’t happy, even though you achieved over 6:1 ROI last year. It makes you think you’re not good enough. There are other clients who are so easy to work with and it makes it more enjoyable. So much to be said for a healthy client-agency relationship. @MarkChambers

Q3: Is there a particular part of PPC that tends to make you feel more burnt out or dislike PPC work?

Not really PPC itself, but like, feeling like I HAVE to have the RIGHT answer at the drop of a hat. Which I do to myself btw by constantly answering yes to various requests! @JuliaVyse

Starting a new campaign for a new client. I’ve done it hundreds of times over the years but I still refresh the dashboard way too often while waiting for the first leads to arrive. @Pete_Bowen

Doing anything you know is a bad strategic move for the client. @ferkungamaboobo

I think it is always a result of ‘People’ problems and not PPC problems. Unless there is no conversion tracking. Then it becomes a PPC problem. @alimehdimukadam

Agree with Ali!! @TheMarketingAnu

Over-explaining to non-PPCers the way things work and not being understood, unreasonable requests in spite of over-explaining why something is not possible or that it might be a bad move. I find this lack of understanding the most mentally tiring. @DianaAlinaAldea

I’m pretty sure this is 90% people + 10% work. The clients who ask for daily updates and constantly want to “tweak” stuff are exhausting. @DigitalSamIAm

I think because no one every trains you on it ever… clients and talking to then. Comms and worrying what clients would ask in the early days was hard.I had to learn most clients are just curious and no one was out to get me. Plus just learn the ad account better then the back of my hand and I will be fine. @duanebrown

I work harder to find ideal clients, where I can easily apply “Underpromise, overdeliver” thingy. @slobodanjelisavac

And people who want proposals, ideas, reports, strategic help like yesterday But won’t move an inch till 6 months and keep asking for the above. @alimehdimukadam

@duanebrown I have a commitment to my team to teach them comms as part of onboarding. no-one gets thrown in the pit around me! @JuliaVyse

As others have said, dealing with difficult and/or draining clients can certainly suck all the fun out of any account work! Lately, the pace of change can make me feel less than stoked about the work. I feel like I have explained SO MANY NEW AND DIFFERENT THINGS to clients in the last 2 years. A bit exhausting. @NeptuneMoon

A few are top-of-mind culprits:

  • Google changing fundamentally with poor communication. It’s one thing to say, here’s our public-facing rationale that will resonate with you, advertisers/brands. It’s another to say, we’re evolving, deal with it.
  • Under-prepared clients. There are basics that should be defaults at this point, like having a healthy YouTube Channel, understanding and owning conversion tracking, and being prepared with a website’s evolution to better serve advertising.
  • Lack of platform-side support. This is especially common today. When there are no support articles to help with a fix…it can be particularly isolating, not to mention a time suck. @teabeeshell

@duanebrown HUGE thing. A big part of leveling up in my career was learning that NO ONE teaches how to talk to clients and then all of a sudden you’re client-facing. @ferkungamaboobo

That is a good thing. @JuliaVyse we spend a lot of time the last 3 years refinining and just always talk about comms, monthly reports and client calls. @duanebrown

@ferkungamaboobo literally running presentation training for all mgrs and under this quarter.@JuliaVyse

After 1+ year with a client… our role is more comms then account work. @duanebrown

And like, it’s an agency principal problem. The amount of times I’ve been in a meeting after a meeting figuring out damage control from a principal not letting the account team do their job. @ferkungamaboobo

One thing I have been dealing with repeatedly recently is “rush builds” but then the client sitting on the documents that I need to get everything up and running. One thing why I try my best to ask my client service team not to over promise to clients to get things up and running asap. In the end feels like the blame ends up on me even though I am waiting for CS and the client. @AliRussell

Working on low conversion volume accounts, which I have done forever, is so much harder now in Google Ads. All of the automation and machine learning is leaving these accounts high and dry with zero acknowledgement from Google. That is incredibly frustrating, particularly when coupled with the frequent “it does not work that way any more” conversations that happen every month. @NeptuneMoon

@AliRussell Sounds like you don’t have control over those rush scenarios, but one thing I brought with me from my web design days is a production schedule. And language in the contract right with the schedule that explicitly says “failure to meet production schedule deadlines may result in future steps or deliverables being delayed.” Helps a lot. @NeptuneMoon

Ditto @NeptuneMoon the black box of the AI/machine learning is really frustrating for low-volume accounts! @AmyLytle

@NeptuneMoon True, what irks me the most is when we try to get the low spending accounts with budgets of 2-3k a month, Google Reps keep emailing and asking for calls. I used to respect everyone that they are doing their job but with recent tactics of directly sending calendar invites etc I simply get annoyed right now with them. @alimehdimukadam

ASAP is a recipe for disaster. Every time. And again, it’s a sales problem, not a practitioner problem. The ops/PM folks give the sales folks the lead times, but the sales folks struggle with the challenge that someone else will ultimate come in with a lower and faster bid.Big issue with non-differentiated firms, especially. @ferkungamaboobo

@NeptuneMoon That’s great! Being able to communicate clearly with the client is key. @AliRussell

Bad clients can speed up burnout. Asking for daily meetings, wanting daily updates, going in and making changes and not telling us – it’s exhausting. @beyondthepaid

I don’t want to sound like I’m gunning for the sales folks – their jobs are hard too! it’s a complex world we live in, and we’re all just doing our best with the external forces pressuring us. @ferkungamaboobo

@beyondthepaid what is WITH that? I have language in my contracts that activity in the account not taken by us absolves us of responsibility for results. yes, it got that bad. @JuliaVyse

@ferkungamaboobo I think it works best when sales and us are in the convo together. it can prevent a lot of nonsense. @JuliaVyse

@JuliaVyse we’re getting to that point after saying it over and over verbally. It’s crazy. @beyondthepaid

When I try, and I try, but everything fails to perform. Still gets to me after all these years, even when I know I’ve done everything right. @MenachemAni

A lot of the switch to AI is getting really frustrating – we’re used to being able to control things and now there’s so much where we can’t… yet we’re still held responsible. @revaminkoff

@DigitalSamIAm hit the nail on the head. Bad clients have been the source of the worst burnouts for me in my career. @robert_brady

Q4: What did/do you do to help alleviate the burnout or lack of enjoyment in your PPC work? What was most helpful for you?

left PPC and worked in implementation management for a year at a disgustingly toxic company – I came crawling back to PPC. @AmyLytle

Open communication with my boss and my colleagues. therapy helped/is helping. hiring more help helped, but it didn’t happen right away. @JuliaVyse

Got a new job, lol! Being laid off from my last job was a wakeup call and I realized I still love this kind of work. Found a great role in a new company and am revitalized! @beyondthepaid

Talking about it helps. Realizing that you’re not the only one experiencing the things that are bringing you down in PPC at that time. @NeptuneMoon

Plugging keeping a “smile file” too – it’s cheesy, but if I get great feedback from a client, manager, or someone else, I stick it in a document so that when burnout creeps in, I can see reminders of the good parts! @AmyLytle

Sounds cheesy but at work I come up with 2-3 things daily that I am grateful for in my current role. I am grateful for my PPC team and that we can share our successes, failures and frustrations openly. I am grateful for this community as I was feeling extra over today when I first got to work. Now I am feeling a little better ready to take on the day. @AliRussell

I’ve added some variety so instead of just managing accounts I now also offer consulting/mentoring and am working on a SAAS in the PPC space.  Being able to change hats every now and then keeps the work feeling fresh. @Pete_Bowen

Being upfront and honest in my communication with my boss/coworkers/employees, going to therapy, practising meditation, and participating in these conversations has been helpful for me! @alexnicoll93

Respecting my personal time and doing things for myself in my free time, without feeling guilty about not constantly thinking about work. Enjoying the little things, spending time with loved ones, smiling in spite of the bad moments, and trying to be in equilibrium. @DianaAlinaAldea

I have seen others talking about keeping a file of your successes to look at when you’re struggling with your work. I like this idea a lot. @NeptuneMoon

@NeptuneMoon I do this too – keep a kudos file for when I’m feeling frustrated. @beyondthepaid

1. time off, 2. reframing @DavisBaker

Diversifying our business. @revaminkoff

A big thing is having camaraderie with your peers. Others noted in other questions that feeling isolated can exacerbate the burnout — it’s entirely true. This is, I think, the biggest challenge with remote work. @ferkungamaboobo

I would not have survived my first agency gig without the rest of us. @ferkungamaboobo

Better systems, processes and SOPs to get past the work I don’t always enjoy. Automate as much as I can. Just make sure I cap my hours each week. There will always be work tomorrow…. no point trying to do everything. @duanebrown

PPC Chat is invaluable for connecting with others experiencing similar things. @beyondthepaid

Establishing the mental health boundary of, “There will be times when I need to step away from work, and I need that to perform at my best.”Good managers/companies will understand this, no questions asked. PTO can be “personal” with no rationale provided.If time off is needed “instantly” by an employee, this should be a cue to managers that something may be “up” with said person. A conversation about workload, sanity, and happiness should be on the near horizon.If you don’t feel you “need” time off, you should take it anyway. Stepping away from work helps your mind solve problems, inspires creativity, and hits a “reset” button you may not recognize you need. @teabeeshell

In recent years, my focus has been on only working with clients who pass my vibe test. Good people = less stress. @MenachemAni

@duanebrown Oh my gosh, yes yes yes, SOPs. Talk with your ops person. Get your tasks templatized. Get your accounts folks stable deliverables that they know what they’re sending the clients. Get your sales folks the same kind of projections every time. @ferkungamaboobo

Setting and maintaining boundaries is also crucial. It is a learned skill, so if you’re not great at it you can learn to be! @NeptuneMoon

Dittoing setting boundaries, and learning to say “no” – I’m terrible at this but just said no to something huge yesterday because it would mean massively overworking myself in the next few weeks, and could not be happier that I took care of my future self! @AmyLytle

I like what @MenachemAni said, work with good clients that match your vibe. And connecting with peers is huge. I attend a local networking group, have lunch with individuals occasionally. Go to a conference or two each year. I try to make #ppcchat each week. Lastly, have hobbies outside of work that interest and engage you. @robert_brady

I’m watching 2 squirrels chase each other outside my window right now and even that can reset my mood. @beyondthepaid

Wanted to add that exercising has felt like it’s been a good antidote to work. I surf nearly every morning at sunrise and do other stuff too. I’m in better shape at 53 than I was at 43 I think. @Pete_Bowen

I’m very insistent with my team that we book vacation as early as possible. waiting till Q4 puts pressure on the end of the year and will exhaust you. @JuliaVyse

@Pete_Bowen YES!!! I am a new mom- little man is almost 6 months old. After my hardest days at work, I take my time to enjoy bath and bedtime moments but then I hit the peloton and feel like I am ready to go all over again. If only I could get a workout in before my day and start with that mindset. @AliRussell

@AliRussell Congrats on the baby and well done on carving out the time to exercise. I’ve got 4 kids and although they’re grown up now I remember how draining it was when they were tiny.@Pete_Bowen

Took a break of 2-3 months after it took a toll on my health, got married. I set my boundaries more effectively now. And keep reminding myself on a good or a bad day – This too shall pass….don’t beat yourself over it and don’t get too excited as well. There are a lot of variables that are not in my control, focus only on what you can. @alimehdimukadam

Re-prioritizing things I enjoy outside of PPC has definitely helped. I’ve also tried setting better boundaries, and have leaned into the mindset that “perfect is the enemy of good” (without sacrificing the overall quality of work) @alexnicoll93

Q5: Are there things you do to help prevent burnout or decreased enjoyment with your PPC work?

I am picky about the projects I take on. And I know, it is easy to think “well how nice that you can do that” but the truth is you can too! Every terrible project or client you work with keeps you from landing a much better one. @NeptuneMoon

Clearly stating SLAs upfront with clients goes a long way. I also take daily walks and that helps immensely. @beyondthepaid

Taking a break when I need to. And trying to be peaceful in spite of anything that might come to me. Just accept things, not overthink too much. @DianaAlinaAldea

Oh! Giving yourself space to get back to people. You absolutely do not have to have instant answers! If you tend to panic agree to stuff, start forcing yourself to say something like “I will get back to you via email on that after our call” to buy yourself a moment to think before you answer or commit to anything. @NeptuneMoon

Get outside, for whatever reason. Sunshine. Fresh air. Physical activity. @robert_brady

+1 for @robert_brady‘s note about having hobbies outside of work & @Pete_Bowen‘s about exercising regularly. Both provide that “reset” to focus upon returning to work, solving problems unconsciously, and keep you more well-rounded, physically and mentally. @teabeeshell

I also have a sticky note on my monitor that reads, “Is it really a big deal, or are you just making it one…”I find this to be a helpful (almost daily) mantra. @teabeeshell

I took email notifications off my phone entirely before going on a vacation a few years ago and never turned them back on. I don’t think I’ll ever turn them back on, either. I also disable slack notifications after working hours. When I’m away from work I am more difficult to reach. This is marketing, not brain surgery. I encourage everyone I work with to do the same! @alexnicoll93

One gem from therapy I’ll share too – all feelings are temporary. If you’re feeling stressed or anxious or whatever, that feeling will pass. Give yourself space for it to if you can so you can have a clearer perspective. @NeptuneMoon

Talking about sticky notes, I have one on my laptop saying: “Life is beautiful. I am happy.” @DianaAlinaAldea

I have a sticky note that says Call Dave but I can’t remember who Dave is or what it’s about. @Pete_Bowen

Yeah, if you’re only an employee, remember that the company only cares about you as a cog in the machine. This is true even in good places that value their cogs and want to keep them oiled and maintained. @ferkungamaboobo

My sticky note says “Greatness is a matter of conscious choice” @AliRussell

This isn’t to be negative, but to remember what’s really important, even if you want to be a really good cog (which is valid!) @ferkungamaboobo

Love how everyone has an inspirational sticky note. Maybe Dave is your secret inspiration you don’t know about, Peter. @DianaAlinaAldea

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