PPCChat | Experts Burning Google Ads Questions | 19th December 2023

During this week’s PPCChat session, host Julie F Bacchini was joined by Ginny Marvin who answered experts burning Google Ads questions. Here is the screencap of the entire discussion.

Q1 Are there any more insights as to extra brand safety controls for Pmax on the horizon? From Fraser Andrews

As you probably saw, there’s a temporary option to request to opt out of Search Partner Network at the account level through March 1st. I don’t have any updates to share at this time, but this is temporary as the teams evaluate additional controls to put in place. @adsliaison

(As an FYI, looking at data from October, over 90% of SPN impressions were from Top 100 sites and apps, including YouTube.) @adsliaison

And a couple of resources to share: @adsliaison

• Here’s a rundown of safety controls for PMax that I shared in August https://twitter.com/adsliaison/status/1692640539080900730
• An article I wrote this month for SEJ on controls in PMax https://www.searchenginejournal.com/key-ai-features-performance-max-boost-results/500797/

Will additional insight into the placements on search partners be part of what might come out of this? @NeptuneMoon

I don’t have any further details to share at this time but the teams are evaluating additional controls. @adsliaison

If I requested a SP placement report from my rep, would they be able to provide it? @BorisBeceric

I don’t know that answer @Boris Beceric tbh @adsliaison

Any insights on when PMax placements might be available in the API? @navahf

Q2 I have no words to describe how bad Google Ads support is. Are there any plans to improve it … or is support being completely phased out altogether? To what extent has Bard/Google AI taken over support? From Mark

A lot of people have made comments like this lately, so this seemed like an important question to include here… @NeptuneMoon

I’d agree. My team is amazing, and we’re very happy with our support. we also spend 1.7B per year, which gives us a bit more leverage than other teams. @JuliaVyse

I look at support as a “bonus” from any company, and I’ve always appreciated historical support from Google. These days, it’s particularly critical for Google Ads, given the sheer volume of “false flag” errors implemented by automated checks. @teabeeshell

We literally just found out we most likely lost support for a client spending millions who REALLY wants support. @revaminkoff

I’m very aware of questions and concerns about this topic. @adsliaison

@JuliaVyse you spend WOOOT? @BorisBeceric

I work for a giant holdco. @JuliaVyse

Is the program that has advertisers paying for a call option that is in pilot going to be rolled out globally? @NeptuneMoon

Support isn’t being phased out but changes are being made. There have long been challenges on this front, as everyone is likely aware. I’ve talked about this before, but Support was one of the areas I wanted to understand better when I joined. @adsliaison

With the scope of inquiries, it’s not an easy solve. That said, I know there are real frustrations about the current state, including chat. @adsliaison

I do think Support is an are where LLMs/Google AI will be able to make big strides in improving experiences. That’s not happening yet, but work is underway. Stay tuned. @adsliaison

If you’re chatting internally with folks, I’d describe it this way: the volume of support availability must match the volume of changes to policies, which creates more algorithmic disapprovals, and other issues. @JuliaVyse

The paid support pilot is ongoing and I don’t have any update on that. More details here https://searchengineland.com/google-ads-enhanced-customer-service-small-business-430773 @adsliaison

Anyone here used the paid support and have feedback on how useful it was? @Pete_Bowen

To quote Bea Arthur from classic television show The Golden Girls: perhaps it bears repeating. @JuliaVyse

When it comes to support, how well things go depends on what help you need: @duanebrown

1. Add/removing GMC from our agency MCA. Easy as pie and it gets done.
2. GTM/GA tracking issue or review. If they show up, usually helpful.
3. Other questions… might just depend on which person you get to talk with at support.

A thought on support – it would be really useful if we could ask to change support reps so you have in-the-moment data on when a rep isn’t being helpful. @navahf

And if there was a way you could proactively request reps for the current or upcoming quarter on big priority accounts. @revaminkoff

Q3 Google seems to be pushing Maximize Conversion Value and tROAS.I’d love to utilize this, but in Lead Gen it’s not always practical to assign a value to the conversion action – especially when something like a form fill or phone call can lead to services worth anywhere from $20-several thousand dollars.I think it would be much more practical to set values at the ad group or campaign level. Does Google have any plans to change how conversion values can be assigned? If not, can you recommend a workaround? From Boggs

Currently, we recommend structuring by value targets at the campaign level. So I’d advise separating by campaign rather than by ad group. Target ROAS is also available for portfolio strategies if you have similar targets across multiple campaigns. @adsliaison

You might also find this article I wrote on value based bidding helpful https://www.searchenginejournal.com/how-max-conversion-value-troas-bidding/494355/ @adsliaison

@adsliaison Any insight as to why Google pushes so much harder for tROAS over tCPA? The latter is a vital cost-controlling lever, and some fear that it will fade away over time, given the current trajectory of Google’s prioritization. @teabeeshell

For what it’s worth, I think folks aren’t comfortable committing to a ROAS goal, and/or folks don’t know how to use that lever like CPA. There’s a certain degree that we need to own that knowledge (i.e. if you want more leads, accept a lower road goal).Google gives us tools like data exclusions, conversion values, and offline conversions. We just need to use them. And if clients refuse to provide data, then they have to be ok with worse results. @navahf

@navahf I agree in principle. For anyone I work with, a big education component is, “At what unit cost can you afford to acquire customers?” If we can’t arrive at a tCPA goal, grounds for parting ways. I do still use tROAS, sparingly and strategically, but tCPA is a lever to preserve margin and avoid AOV skewing/bias in terms of the serving algorithm. @teabeeshell

Target ROAS can enable you prioritize and optimize when you have goals such as sales revenue, LTV, profit margins and are able to feed that data back into Google Ads. You can also continue to use Target CPA. @adsliaison

Is there support documentation for how to feed that data back? @teabeeshell

yes and Travis, I know you’d also asked about feeding  COGS back in, so a bit more on that: @adsliaison

Using conversions with cart data allows you to bring data about the products sold for each transaction. Conversions with cart data is currently supported for PMax, Shopping, and Search campaigns linked to a Google Merchant Center account. More details here: https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/9028254. @adsliaison

Q4 Was this some kind of test? https://twitter.com/AnthonyHigman/status/1735697860446900573 If not, what was it and how can advertisers know if this is happening in their accounts? And stop it from happening? from Anthony Higman

Here is the screenshot of what he talking about @NeptuneMoon

This is a small test and I don’t have anything further to share on this at this time. @adsliaison

I think you can guess how we will all feel about this if it makes it out of “small testing”. @NeptuneMoon

While you may not have much to share at this time, clients who have their ads approved by boards – pharma, gov, etc. Cannot manage something like this. It’s a problem. @JuliaVyse

Lol. Maybe accounts with certain certifications can be excluded? @JuliaVyse

If there’s feedback, I imagine most would agree that this is not overtly approved by the average brand/advertiser. @teabeeshell

@JuliaVyse add legal where you have to have bar association submissions for ads in some states. @Pete_Bowen

It’s worth remembering that at the same time there’s a test in PMax that allows for pinning headlines. Agree the lack of any pinning would be bad in new accounts but full pinning has been proven to hurt performance. Industries that require full copy approval might need their own advertising solution (like LSAs or Hotel ads) @navahf

We understand those concerns. Pinning is not affected with this test for example. @adsliaison

Q5 There seem to be a lot more disapprovals of ads happening in the last 6 months. Has there been a change internally at Google Ads that would explain this? And how can advertisers get incorrect disapprovals fixed in a timely manner? From Peter Bowen

Ads policies are necessary to protect advertisers, publishers and consumers and to comply with local laws and regulations, but I know navigating them can be frustrating and there are occasions of false flags. I don’t know if there have actually been more disapprovals recently, however. @adsliaison

I typically recommend taking a close look at the Help Center pages on the respective policies and carefully reviewing your ads, site, etc. before appealing and then providing as much detail as possible when doing so. @adsliaison

I can say that in my gov accounts, I worry about the work experience of my reps. In certain weeks, it’s a lot for them to stick handle, and that kind of repetitive task isn’t ideal. @JuliaVyse

Anecdotally, in the community, disapprovals has been a topic much more frequently in the last 6-ish months. Including more frequent incorrect disapprovals or disapprovals for policies that are not being violated, therefore there is nothing to modify to “get in compliance” – there was no noncompliance? @NeptuneMoon

I also have noticed a lot of paused ads or ads in paused campaigns are getting disapproved repeatedly, even though they’re not running/active/etc. @revaminkoff

I can appreciate the cost savings of automated checks (in place for years now), but at what cost…to advertisers? This issue is compounded by the dwindling accessibility to support teams.The ultimate goal is, there should always be a viable path/recourse for false flags. Today, the standard 7-10 day window for email responses is insufficient. @teabeeshell

I think where folks get frustrated is when they get lumped into finance or medical when they don’t do anything related to it. @navahf

I just got hit with a circumventing systems disapproval. Bog-standard lead gen account with no mischief going on. My experience has been that these are impossible to get approved. @Pete_Bowen

Yes, I hear all of this feedback and very aware of the challenges and frustrations that come with managing disapprovals. Striking the right balance between blocking bad actors (of which there are many!) and reducing friction for good actors to advertise isn’t easy and something I know we need to keep working on. @adsliaison

I know we can’t get access to the ML that goes into auto reviewing, but any studies on amount of disapprovals and ratio of types of appeals would go a long way to build the trust back for the good actors. @navahf

@navahf I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with the word trust. We’re asking our clients to build their businesses on a platform that might get yanked away at any time based on the whim of an algorithm. I love Google Ads and have made a great living out of it for 15 years but it’s becoming harder to recommend. @Pete_Bowen

Q6 Are they going to slowly get rid of different campaign types until the only option available left will be AI-driven campaigns like Pmax? From Darius Chiosa

I don’t have anything to share on that but you’ll continue to see investments and updates in different campaigns types, including Search, in the coming year. @adsliaison

You know we had to ask! @NeptuneMoon

Yep lol! @adsliaison

I like that PMax is AI but DSA is a-ok. Nevermind that PMax allows for exclusions (albeit not as conveniently) @navahf

Q7 Many people are seeing instances of overspending on a campaign by as much as double the daily budget. Aside from us using scripts/APIs or manually pausing an ad group/campaign, is there a setting within Google Ads that will keep Google from overspending the daily campaign budget? From Nate Louis

I will add – is there anything on the roadmap to allow advertisers to opt out of this happening? @NeptuneMoon

Campaigns within Google ads are technically allowed to spend 2x their daily budget aren’t they? @McKenzie Davis

This has been the case since 2017 (as a throwback, here’s how I covered the change at SEL back then https://searchengineland.com/google-adwords-budget-change-impact-284051). Campaigns can spend up to 2x the daily budget on a given day, but your monthly spend won’t exceed your spending limit (30.4 days X your avg. daily budget) in order to account for predicted fluctuations in search traffic – more here https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6385083. @adsliaison

@McKenzie Davis Yes, but it can be problematic for some accounts depending on how they pace their budgets. @danielparscale

Definitely – scripts are helpful in that case, even though it’s not optimal to have to pause/enable campaigns daily. I have one I use for a month range that could be edited for daily if anyone is interested feel free to DM! @McKenzie Davis

Portfolio bid caps. @navahf

Also seeing some spend more than 2x a day… And agreed that when we need to move budgets around a lot over the month, the spend also becomes problematic. @revaminkoff

Also if your budgets are behaving wildly that might be a sign you’re underbidding/budgeting for your market and Google has to go aggressive to make up for underspending most of the month. @navahf

Not saying it’s good to spend 20k in a day when you intended to spend $5k (I’ve seen this happen), but 9/10 it’s caused by a budget-to-market misalignment. @navahf

Q8 Why are competitors’ names matching so much more frequently to both brand and non-brand terms in the last 6-12 months? (will be opening it up for your live questions after this question in a new thread!) From Julie F Bacchini

While this type of matching technically falls within the definition of phrase match, for example, we are taking advertiser feedback into account for future product development to reduce such undesirable matches. @adsliaison

Is the current solution to create/use Brand Exclusion Lists (PMax) or Negative KW Lists (Search/Shopping) to avoid? @teabeeshell

@teabeeshell Yes @adsliaison

It’s really interesting that this is classified as phrase match matching. @navahf

Currently, a brand name for a particular product can match to the generic keyword for that product under the “same meaning” definition of phrase match. @adsliaison

Competitor names also match to brand names in any match type right now. That is frustrating on a number of levels. @NeptuneMoon

Expert’s Google Ads questions for Ginny Marvin

Google Ads used to be a goldmine for consumer insights, these new campaigns seem to lean more heavily into being ambiguous. Have the teams heard this feedback, and will we see a return to search queries instead of search “insights”? Matt Dyke

Has there been a change in Google Ads policy when it comes to Search Arbitrage Ads? When reporting, support is now saying that they see no issue with them when it used to be against policy to direct a click from SERP to SERP. Matt Dyke

If Ginny was to start a new account from scratch (ecomm or lead gen) – how would she start? Boris Beceric

Does Google have plans to integrate any of its recent AI into the Ads platform for analysis? Does Google currently have any best practices for using these or similar tools for large Google Ads datasets? Daniel Parscal

Will Performance Max insights ever be more developed to let us know if we’re losing impression share due to rank or budget? This is really crucial info for marketers planning how to bid/where to allocate spend. McKenzie Davis

What tactics do you recommend for new smbs beginning to advertise on Google? Curious because it’s getting harder and harder to hit conversion thresholds for smart bidding and budget wise they typically can’t afford the volume play to ramp up. Navah Hopkins

Is a PMax planning tool in our future? I get asked how much headroom there is and that’s how we can plan budgets. I can plan TV & YouTube and then give PMax leftovers, but I don’t think that’s what the product team is into. Julia Vyse

What is the criteria for having a Google rep? We have smaller clients with one, and large clients without? (this is from a team member on my team) Reva Minkoff

Why are PMax conversion values as reported in Google Ads so far off from what is reported as attributed to the campaign in GA4? (Google Ads is significantly higher than the GA4 number – have heard/seen this for multiple clients and from other people as well) Reva Minkoff

Are there any plans to reintroduce Agency-level Support in some form? Reva Minkoff

With the privacy first web upon us, do you have guidance for advertisers who serve multiple countries (i.e. an account per market, conversion action recommendations, site structure, etc)? I have things I recommend, and it would be super useful to get your take as we convince clients to do what’s in their best interest. Navah Hopkins

For SMBs in areas where LSA is present, would you recommend priority be given to a regular Google Ads build out (search, remarketing, etc.) or toward using LSA? Especially when budget is constrained and can’t cover both. Robert Brady

What sort of questions/commments are useful vs seen as “complaining” by the product team? Navah Hopkins

Navah Hopkins Honestly, a “never gonna happen” list from G Ads would be helpful. Julie F Bacchini

Why is the certification going back to having a charge?*Note: I don’t mind it, but it would be useful to understand the rational. Navah Hopkins

Navah Hopkins It is? You’ll have to pay to take the certification test? Daniel Parscal

Yes – starting next year. Navah Hopkins

The paid ones are different from those required for partner status I think. McKenzie Davis

Yes, that’s correct, the professional certifications are different and there are no changes to the free Skillshop courses. Thanks for sharing that thread. Ginny Marvin

The new professional certificates in Display, Search & video are currently in pilot. They focus on implementation & optimization skills, are optional, and don’t count toward the Partner program requirements. They came out of requests from agencies who wanted higher exam integrity, security and more content focused on managing campaigns. Ginny Marvin

PPCChat Participants

• Fraser Andrews @PPC_Fraser
• Ginny Marvin @adsliaison
• Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
• Boris Beceric @BorisBeceric
• Navah Hopkins @navahf
• Mark @MarkBppc
• Julia Vyse @JuliaVyse
• Travis @teabeeshell
• Reva Minkoff @revaminkoff
• Duane Brown @duanebrown
• Boggs @williamhboggs
• Anthony Higman @AnthonyHigman
• Peter Bowen @Pete_Bowen
• Darius Chiosa Chiosa @DariusChiosa
• Nate Louis @N8Louis
• McKenzie Davis @McKenzie Davis
• Daniel Parscale @danielparscale
• Matt Dyke @Matt Dyke
• Robert Brady @robert_brady

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